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Old 12-28-2011, 01:34 PM   #1
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Default What is a four-wheel alignment?

So I took the 2005 Odyssey EX to the Honda dealer for an alignment this morning. The steering wheel was rotated about 10° when I took it in. I get it back about 1.5 hours later, start driving home, and notice the the steering wheel is still cocked. So I take it back. I look at the sheet and notice that the front camber is slightly out of spec (printed red) on both wheels. They did not mention this before I left.

So I explain that the steering wheel is still cocked and they agree to take the vehicle back. I asked about the front camber and they state that they cannot correct the front camber. I mention that it is outlined in the Helm manual where you can replace the strut bolts with adjustment bolts.

So I get the van back. They do not provide the current alignment specs and say that they cannot correct the alignment.

I call the service manager and explain the situation. At first he said that they cannot adjust it. I mention the Helm manual. He then states that they do not carry the alignment bolts in stock. He says that he will look into it and call me back. This was two hours ago.

So, what exactly is a four wheel alignment? I just paid about $75 for a front toe adjustment, which takes about 15 minutes.

Cliffs: Honda dealer says that they cannot adjust the front camber on an 05 Odyssey and the Helm manual says otherwise.

Edit: I attached the spec sheet for the van. Notice the red.
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Last edited by Dogginator; 12-28-2011 at 02:22 PM. Reason: Added the spec sheet
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

Good lord sounds like a bunch of asshats at that Honda dealer.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:40 PM   #3
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

I used to do alignments at my Honda dealer. All we could adjust was toe. No one ever mentioned that adjustment bolts to me. Also, it took us the better part of an hour to do an alignment, mostly due to out shitty alightment hoist, and the fact that we always had to the vehicle for a test drive when we were done (company policy, anything besides an oil change must be test driven)
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

I'm texting my friend who works at a reputable Honda dealership over in the Northwest to see what his take is on it
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:43 PM   #5
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

Turn the wheel all the way to the bumpstops and give it a good slam, it will skip some teeth and be spot on.

Four wheel alignment includes any factory adjustment, if they need to install extra parts like the adjustable bolts parts and labor for install of the bolts will be extra, then in the future they will adjust (if they notice them) with a regular four wheel alignment. It really is a ripoff, I always ask for a toe set only, unless camber is out significantly it will not affect wear or driveability nearly as much as toe.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

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I'm texting my friend who works at a reputable Honda dealership over in the Northwest to see what his take is on it
He said that only the s2000 comes with the hardware to adjust camber. I'm guessing you can get off brand camber bolts for the Oddysey and have someone besides a Honda dealership adjust them. Your synopsis is correct, you paid 75$ for a front toe adjustment only Why it's called a four wheel alignment?
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

Isn't the point that they should be able to make it right with whatever is on the car already?
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

A 4 wheel alignment is exactly as it reads. Measurements and adjustments to all 4 wheels. Some vehicles are engineered with this adjustability (IRS for example) where other cars with solid axles won't have 4 wheel adjustability...
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:54 PM   #9
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

Honda carries the camber bolts. They replace the two lower strut bolts where the hub connects to the strut. It is p/n 90120-SHJ-A00. They are part 13 in the diagram.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:55 PM   #10
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

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Isn't the point that they should be able to make it right with whatever is on the car already?
They should be able to do it unless something is bent. They did not inform me that the camber was incorrect at all. I had to read the sheet.

The adjustment bolt range could put it back into spec.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

They are not going to add in the adjustment bolts free of charge, parts and labor to install will cost more than a standard alignment. Which is why they didn't do it. Why they didn't bring that up to you is beyond me...young inexperienced tech/service advisor or either with an idgaf attitude probably.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:04 PM   #12
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

I think that I may send an email to the dealer using a honda-tech.com email address.

Is that an abuse of power? :philosoraptor:
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogginator View Post
They should be able to do it unless something is bent. They did not inform me that the camber was incorrect at all. I had to read the sheet.

The adjustment bolt range could put it back into spec.
Right, the fact that they cannot make it right with what they have makes them seem incompetent.

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I think that I may send an email to the dealer using a honda-tech.com email address.

Is that an abuse of power? :philosoraptor:
No way, do it!
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

Most techs wont get into adjusting camber when it comes to your run of the mill vehicle. All they will do is toe and go, adjusting the camber and replacing camber bolts can get expensive if they want to charge you for all that labor. How bad is your camber?
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

I added the spec sheet to the first post.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:29 PM   #16
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

I have lost faith in any place that claims to do alignments properly. At least you get a print out. I swear when i drop mine off, they don't do a damn thing to the car.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

It just irks me that they didn't even suggest the camber bolts with those specs, I mean aren't they in it for extra work/sales/labor?
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:31 PM   #18
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

You would think. They could have sold me $28 of bolts.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:32 PM   #19
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

and bullshitted you the time of installation and charged you for labor they can't even justify... that's just weird. It is the techs responsibility at Honda dealerships to upsale and suggest things though. Maybe your tech was a new guy
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

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A 4 wheel alignment is exactly as it reads. Measurements and adjustments to all 4 wheels. Some vehicles are engineered with this adjustability (IRS for example) where other cars with solid axles won't have 4 wheel adjustability...
Exactly.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:46 PM   #21
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

As an ex-service sales I would always bring up the problem and depending on how busy we were or how much corpo was up my *** to get sales, push the sale or downplay it. A lot of times techs get pissed doing bs like this (I don't know why, its like double labor and alignments pay big compared to the time it takes) and a pissed tech just fuxors my day. With these measurements though I would have brought it to your attention and pushed for a sale. If cross camber was in spec I would have probably down played it (as it is less likely to be a problem) and leave the decision up to you the customer.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:50 PM   #22
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

Yeah, the cross camber is way off. The tires are feathering on the outside.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

ITT: arm chair alignment specialists

OP, pic doesn't show up. Can you list the before and actual specs?

Edit- now it works ...
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:51 PM   #24
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

The picture is an attachment. I'm not sure why it is not showing up.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:51 PM   #25
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Default Re: What is a four-wheel alignment?

looks like the subframe has shifted, causing pos camber on one side and neg on the other.
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