BlueShadow

Hi guys,

Pretty simple question, just like the thread title says. How do you guys keep the bung in place while you weld it to the pipe?

I was thinking drill my hole and hold the bung in place with some zipties and tack the two sides. Then remove zipties, and weld all the way around.

Thanks

CarTunr22

I'd try a c-clamp. Save the zip ties for electrical stuff. You could always be carefull, and just fold it there with your fingers (wear welding gloves obviously)

BlueShadow

hehehe I thought about holding it, but even with welding gloves that scares me. With my tinted helmet I cant see anything until I make contact, and the tip usually doesn't go where I want it to. I might have a C clamp laying around, hopefully it will be big enough.

Thanks

Boosted96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueShadow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hehehe I thought about holding it, but even with welding gloves that scares me. With my tinted helmet I cant see anything until I make contact, and the tip usually doesn't go where I want it to. I might have a C clamp laying around, hopefully it will be big enough.

Thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ha! im glad to know im not the only one

blueoval557

being you have a fixed shaded helmet, it does indeed make it harder. heres my idea though. find some threaded rod or a long enough bolt with the same threads. thread it all the way through the bung and far enough into the tubing to touch the other side(on the inside). tighten it down. the more you thread it into the bung, the farther out the bung will be sticking out of the tubing. make sense? this way you can adjust the bung also just by threading the rod in more or out more. good luck!
this is thinking you will be welding a bung into the "side" of a piece of tubing. or are you talking about the threaded end adapters that go into the end of tubing?

BlueShadow

I'm welding bungs for my WBO2 sensor and possibly my oil drain into my pan.

Brandon Clifton

Ok- first of all if you're "scared" of a little heat and flash, welding isn't your gig.

Now- as far as your O2 bung goes:
I use M18 spark plug non-foulers ($4.99 for a pack of 2 in the Help! section at most auto parts stores).
1) Cut the male threaded end off with a lathe or whatever the hell you have to cut it off with, since I realize everyone doesn't have a lathe in their back pocket.
(You can use a saw, dremel, 17/32" drill bit through the center, etc to get rid of the male end).

You only need about 4 threads (or .250" inch) because that's how many threads an O2 sensor has. This means you'll need the hex part of the non-fouler, and about 1/8" of the smooth part. Make sure the entire end of the sensor protrudes through the non-fouler. Subbie guys do this procedure with the sensor up INSIDE the fouler to trick the ECU into thinking the second O2 sensor is working correctly when they're running catless exhaust.

2) Drill a 3/4" hole in the pipe. Use a small bit like a 5/16" first, then a 3/8", then a 1/2" and work your way up. Hold on tight, a 3/4" bit will break your wrist when it catches if you're holding it Nancy-style (Nancy-style = Jack from Will and Grace)
If you don't have, or have access to, a 3/4" bit, buy a holesaw. Keep in mind a hole saw makes a larger hole than what's on the package (a 3/4" can make a 1" hole depending on the weather, how drunk/hungover you are, etc. It's just one of those things you have to get used to). Start with a 5/8" and finish with an abrasive stone in your drill. All of these tools are useful to have down the road.

3) Drop the non-fouler in the hole. It only goes one way.

4) Weld one side, then the other side, back and forth like putting on lug nuts. Don't inhale the smoke. The smoke contains zinc. Zinc smoke = lung cancer.

5) Chase the threads with (gasp you've got actually spend some MONEY! $32.00 at http://www.mcmaster.com)an oiled M18 x 1.5 plug tap because METAL SHRINKS WHEN YOU WELD IT!!

6) Install exhaust

7) Apply some anti-sieze to the O2 threads.

8) Install sensor.

People are always bitching and moaning about buying the tap. WTF? A Bosch sensor is $75.00, and that's from PLX who has them pretty darn cheap. Even a regular cheap one-wire sensor for an EF is $18.00. Buy the damn tap. It's good forever, it's not like it has a shelf life. If you wreck the sensor threads you're pretty much done. Of course, I know of a guy who tigged the sensor to an extra non-fouler and then screwed that into the exhaust, but that's a story for a different thread.

If for some reason you do mess up the threads on the sensor go to Sears and buy a metric thread file ($11.00). They can really get you out of a jam.

Good luck!

BlueShadow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Brandon Clifton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok- first of all if you're "scared" of a little heat and flash, welding isn't your gig.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for all the tips, I'll read through this page and read through it again later. About being "scared", it only scares me when somebody tells me to hold the piece down while I weld it, hehehe. I have a feeling I might get electrocuted if I do that.

Brandon Clifton

You won't get electrocuted as long as the ground cable is connected directly to the workpiece or the workpiece is laying on a conductive surface (metal) that is connected to the ground. At that point your body is basically out of the circuit. You might get burned by the sparks (MIG) or sunburned/scorched by the arc (TIG) but definately not electrocuted.

Bailhatch

i just hold it there(no gloves ), set up the MIG gun so I can tack it and not miss, <U>look away</U>, tack. Then just put on the hood and weld it on.

Engloid

For the guys with "perma-tint" lenses....


You should adjust the tensioners (at pivot point) such that you can have the hood up, nod your head, and it easily comes down in front of your face. This is so you can have one hand holding the part, one holding the mig guy, not hood and start welding.

I really don't advise the "look away" or "close eyes" methods, as both can get your face and/or eyes burned. Of course, we're all guilty of doing it, but if you're going to do a lot of tacking, it's really not a good idea.

blueoval557

I agree with Engloid. I was doing a bunch of small tacks for about an hour one day, using the good ol' "closing eyes" method. NOT A GOOD IDEA! Had a hella bad sunburn for about a week! Also, as for threads shrinking when being welded....not exactly. They MIGHT VERY slightly, if you are using to much heat, but thats why you weld the bung in with a bolt already in the threads, then when your done welding, you just thread the bolt out and it will clean the threads out for you. Then keep the bolt or throw it away. No sense in paying $35 for a tap you will only use once! Just my .02
Kyle

Engloid

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blueoval557 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I agree with Engloid. I was doing a bunch of small tacks for about an hour one day, using the good ol' "closing eyes" method. NOT A GOOD IDEA! Had a hella bad sunburn for about a week! Also, as for threads shrinking when being welded....not exactly. They MIGHT VERY slightly, if you are using to much heat, but thats why you weld the bung in with a bolt already in the threads, then when your done welding, you just thread the bolt out and it will clean the threads out for you. Then keep the bolt or throw it away. No sense in paying $35 for a tap you will only use once! Just my .02
Kyle</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good advice, Blue... but most bungs are pipe thread, not bolt thread

I do agree though..if you're having problems with something not going into the bung after welding, it's likely from welding it too hot or putting too much weld on it.

If I have an application that will need a lot of welding on the bung, I have sometimes put a couple drops of oil on the part I put into the bung, prior to welding. It will smoke like mad, but will help you take the part out of it when the welding is done.

BlueShadow

Cool, thanks for the tip about leaving a bolt in there. I have some spare O2 plugs that I can put some antiseize or oil on and I'll put that in the bung when I weld it.

Engloid

yeah, make sure you dont tighten the hell out of the bolt or whatever you put in the bung...or you could wind up removing the threads as you back it out.

BlueShadow

Hey again guys,

I was thinking about practicing welding some bungs before I actually weld the ones onto my DP. I should be able to do this by buying some large SS nuts from NAPA and just practice welding them to my pipe right? I can probably even use nuts if I mess up welding my O2 bungs right?

thanks

IN VTEC

iTrader: (3)

I use a 3/4" hole saw instead of a 3/4" drill bit and then deburr in and around the hole with a carbide burr or bastard file.

I usually just masking tape it down if there isn't enough of an interference fit to tack it.

RACEPAK

if you wand it to sit tight you need to send it to a machine shop and hae them shave half from the nut.

sorry if you didnt understand me ill get sime pics tomorow.

RACEPAK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueShadow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey again guys,

I was thinking about practicing welding
thanks</TD></TR></TABLE>

practice on scrap metal not on stuff that you need to buy.

BlueShadow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RACEPAK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">practice on scrap metal not on stuff that you need to buy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well I already have some spare pipe that I've been practicing on. I dont have any spare bung so I figured I'd pick up a few SS nuts from the local hardware store. I dont have a whole lot of scrap metal to practice on, but I can afford to buy $2-$3 of large nuts and $10 worth of SS pipe/plating so it's no big deal.

IN VTEC,

I was actually thinking about drilling a hole in the pipe and enlarging it with a grinder bit until it is the same size as a bung. I dont know how well my method would work though.

IN VTEC

iTrader: (3)

Try to keep the holes you drill concentric. When you start grinding away a lot of material by eye and hand judgement, you tend to lose concentricity and it might leave you with sizable gaps to fill with the welder. Probably not a big deal since an oxygen sensor bung hole is pretty small.

If you plan on doing it a lot in the future, then you should buy the holesaw...even if they do cost quite a bit for a tool you'll only use semi-infrequently.

Dial calipers are nice to have on hand too so that you can judge the interference between the hole and the piece.

RACEPAK

this is what i mean:


i just had my lug machined since no one in israel sells o2 bungs. i think its safer like this. (less pressure on the weld)

Eddiebx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RACEPAK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this is what i mean:


i just had my lug machined since no one in israel sells o2 bungs. i think its safer like this. (less pressure on the weld)</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats a pretty cool idea.

some of the bungs actually come like that with the lip thing already machined in too for easier positioning and what not,

cua0

call me redneck but i'd just hold it in place with my thumb and tack it with the mig, then tig it afterwards.

you could use a C clamp, or a small betsy clamp too if it makes you more comfortable.

(disclaimer; always wear gloves, safety glasses and long sleeve shirts when welding. sunscreen on ears & face is recommended but not necessary.)

butch11a

i buy 18 X 1.5 mm nuts and cut them in half using an air saw to make them thinner, that way the sensor protrudes deeper into the pipe, then i use a varibit to drill the hole such that the diameter matches that of the i.d of the nut. then i tack it with a mig and finish off with a tig...if i don't have the sensor yet, i use oil drain plugs to plug the hole, just forgot what car its for, just found it lying around in the shop....