Lan

I've been looking at Miller TIG machines because I've heard nothing but good things about Miller- their customer service rocks, machines are built well etc. Right now Miller has the 15% off sale through August 31st by mail in rebate so long as you buy over $150 accessories on the same invoice.

Models I have my eye on are the Miller 200 Multimatic and the Diversion 180

I've got a project car I am building; so I will be doing everything from filling holes, making a cage, to making a turbo manifold.

I want to buy a machine that will last me my lifetime, will have as much functionality as I need, that I can pass down to my kids if they want it. From what I've read, with enough skill, most everything car related can be done with a TIG machine. I've got some big holes to fill on the frame of my car (about 1/2" diameter) and I don't have any time behind a TIG machine but I have a lot of time behind a MIG machine so I am proficient at MIG welding. I figure with enough practice I'll be able to become pretty proficient at TIG welding. Have often do you pros say "Damn I wish I had a MIG for this project" when all you have is a TIG?

Cliffs: Beginner who wants a TIG, should I buy a multi-functional machine, or specifically TIG?

TIA

92_DB2

I personally wouldn't get a multi process machine. I would go with the miller sycrowave 250 great machine and does aluminum. I don't see the point of getting a tig that isn't aluminum capable.

SovXietday

I don't have a MIG, and there are very few situations that I wish I had one. Get a dedicated TIG and learn how to weld in funky places, you'll never look back.

Hidenplanvew

THe diversion 180 is awsome, I bought mine with this deal and bought a hood too. For the people who dont know it will do AC too.. (Will weld Alum.)... The syncrowave 250 would be to much machine for home use. The Diversion only requires a 40 amp breaker while the Syncrowave requires a 60-70 amp breaker.

Race Egr

If you can afford it go with there new Syncrowave 210 machine. It looks like an awesome machine that will give you plenty of room to grow.

1sick4g63

iTrader: (1)

I'll put in my .02 here.
The diversion is a good machine (i had one) except the torch is junk and you will want to replace it. Easy $100 upgrade. However you WILL outgrow it quickly. Yes it can do steel and aluminum, but that's it. Not even an option to do any pre/post flow, balance, frequency.
Much like buying a motorcycle, the diversion 165 and 180 is like a 250cc. You will love it to learn on but that's about it.

Also about a multi purpose machine. They are pretty cool, but honestly, not needed. Get a tig that can also stick weld. Then get a straight mig welder.
So $1900+ for a diversion with no room to grow into. When for $2495 you can get the HTP 221. Made in italy, will stick weld, has 220 amps, and more features than you can ever need.
Then look at a straight mig welder. Something small and powerful, I'd say the hobart 210 MVP. 110v and 220v and 210 amps all for $900 or less.
$3400 and you have 2 of the best machines on the market.

HTP 221
http://www.usaweld.com/ProductDetail...ode=70221-12.5

FYI the 221 will run in the same game as the miller dynasty 200dx. It's also not a non brand name. They have been around for over 30 years!
The hobart is the same as the miller 211. Both made by the same parent company. Both perform the same, just the miller has the miller name and the price tag to go with it.

Hidenplanvew

Diversion 180 is 1600 right now. I would say the diversion 160 is a starting macine but the 180 is set up "better" and will do much more. I dont notice much diffrence between the Diversion and Syncrowave other then pulse. I dont use pulse personally and would rather use my foot to control. Been Tig welding for years and just got the diversion for price and what it can do in my garage.

1sick4g63

iTrader: (1)

Still 1600 is a lot for a machine that you will outgrow in a year or two. buy right buy once

Lan

Thank you for your input. There are some used Syncrowave 250's on Ebay for about $2500. A little more than I want to spend on something used, when I can get a newer unit for $2k with accessories like a helmet and a cart. I understand your point about getting a single purpose machine because I haven't had a lot of success with general products designed to do multiple things in the past. BTW, the 200 and the 180 both weld aluminum.

I've been thinking about the idea of needing MIG for a while so it's nice to hear that I can use TIG for almost anything. I read a thread about filling holes using a TIG, which is a major concern for me because it's one of the first things I need to do in order to start painting my frame. The poster said pretty much anything is possible with enough skill. This is part of the reason why the Multimatic 200 is so appealing. I can bang out the stuff I need done to get my car going, rather than having to wait on my skill to improve before I can accomplish much.

Another reason why I have not considered anything but the 180 or 200- They both run off 110-120v. I don't have 220 in my garage, and wiring it up correctly would be very difficult. I figure 110 is enough for what I need it for.

I'll look in to it Can you tell me why it's better than the the Diversion 180?

That must be the difference between the Syncrowave and the Diversion?

Why a TIG that can stick weld instead of a MIG/TIG?

Thank you for all the information. I really appreciate it!

Good info. I just had to google what pulse was. It looks like a really neat feature that I could use when I've mastered a more basic setup. Using all the added features will probably make the learning curve steeper for me, unless you guys think having pulse control makes TIG welding easier...

Do it nice or do it twice. I totally agree. My whole thing is, these machines don't lose a whole lot of value when they're sold used. I would really like to take advantage of Miller's rebate, and stay under 2k.

Thank you all for the opinions and advice. I really appreciate it! If there's anything more you can add I will appreciate it.

1sick4g63

iTrader: (1)

A tig that can stick has the ability to do AC (aluminum.
A mig that can tig can NOT do aluminum. There is no all in one machine that can tig aluminum.
Syncrowave machines are trasnformer machines and will need a 60+amp circuit. Inverters like the htp, diversion and others will run on a 30amp-40amp circuit. So you will save money on your electric bill big time!

Hidenplanvew

You dont really need pulse basicly it takes the petal out of the equasion.. I learned to weld tig just using my foot and thats what I like. Yes the Diversion series are 110 and 220, and yes the Amps on the 180 are like 37 at full draw so it will save some money in a home enviroment. The nice part about miller machines is the hold their value very well and resale of them or trade in is nice. Used ones are usally only 200-500 less then a new machine. Dosent really matter what the year it was made, unless its super old and really outdated. With the rebate on my 180 when I trade in I will actually make a few hundred cause I plan to get a syncrowave or dynasty in the next year or two.

If you do go with a 180 let me know and I can show you how to wire in 220 voltz. Its actually pretty easy and cost about 200 buck to do. The biggest pain is you have to shut off power to the whole house a couple times and and to reset clocks and suck a few times. I can even send you some 14-2 wire too if you pay for the shiping, save you like 50 bucks. Basicly you need a sub panal, a 60-100 amp breaker (this is the exspensive part) and some outlets and wire and such. Ill walk you throught it if you need and send pictures if you want. The 180 runs beautifuly on 220 so I would think about it as it will be a nice upgrade.

1sick4g63

iTrader: (1)

It's not only pulse, but the ability to adjust pre/post flow, frequency, balance etc etc. The diversion is good for a beginner but you will soon wonder why you bought it as it's very limited.
And the diversion 165 is a 220v only, the 180 is dual voltage. Plus the torch that comes with it is the biggest pile of **** I've ever seen.

2fast4u831

Mike. If you can get a 220V machine go for it. They draw less amps than the smaller diversion series machines and you can weld for longer periods of time without any problems. I bought the HTP 221 welder last December when they had the sale. I got it for $2300 out the door. Look at duty cycles as well. the smaller diversion can only weld 60 Amps at 100% and 150 amps at 20%. 100% means you can weld at that amperage continuous. 20% means you can weld at that amperage 2 out of 10 minutes. If you have to weld anything that requires high amperage and timely welds the machine won't like it and might overheat. If you are welding anything over 3/16" in aluminum you will want a bigger 200 amp machine since Al. is great at dissipating heat. I hope this helps Mike.

92_DB2

Hidenplanvew

Incorrect on the amp draw.. Diversion 180 at 180 amps pulls 37 amps.. Sycrowave at 200 amps drams If I remember forrectly 55-60 amps. Pre and post flow on the Diversion 180 is the same as I use on the Syncrowave 200. Balance from the factory on the 180 is the same I use on the 200.

I dont know why you all are stuck on trying to sell this guy on a 220v machine, as currently he dosent even have it. so a machine that will run 110-220 is kind of what he needs at the current time.

1sick4g63

iTrader: (1)

Because he will want a 220v machine. Basically the diversion is over priced and not worth the money for what you get.
Diversion 180 is fixed at 120hz. Balance is set at 72% (IIRC) Pre flow is pre set and post flow changes depending on the amount of amperage that is used.

PRDfab

I agree, the diversion is a good machine, but not for the price. I would look around for a used 180/200, which you can probably get for less than a new diversion.

2fast4u831

Mike, the bigger dynasty 200dx and htp 221 are stick welders as well. Both weigh less than the diversion unit. They have all sorts of settings you will want in the future and they have a foot pedal.

Hidenplanvew

The Diversion is 1600 right now after the discount. syncrowave 200 is like 2300, and you still have to but an extra 150 bucks of miller stuff. The Syncrowave 180 was junk, dont get me wrong I am a Miller guy all the way. I have used the Syncrowave 180 and its much worse then the diversion 180.

Why would you want to stick weld anyways.. Unless you are working on a fence out on ranch or something its worthless. Its dirty, ugly and plain worthless, plus you have to clean the weld afterward. Just use a mig and move quick and have a fairly clean weld.

1sick4g63

iTrader: (1)

I disagree. Stick has many uses indoors and can be very clean (minus slag)
You should try to stick weld stainless it comes out pretty awesome.
Watch this

2fast4u831

No pipe welder or structural welder would say that. Again, I am not talking about the syncrowave machines. Those are heavy and draw a lot of amps.

jaggermouth

I don't think a guy on Honda-tech is asking for advice on what welder is best for pipelining...for a guy building cars I highly doubt he is asking what stick welder or generator he should buy for welding exhaust tubing or stainless headers. That aside, stick is awesome, easy, and cheap but also uglier compared to TIG.

2fast4u831

I understand that. He is looking at Millers multimatic 200 which does a lot; stick, mig, DC tig, and FCAW.

Mike, this machine won't tig Aluminum but with a spool gun you can MIG weld Al.

Hidenplanvew

I am not a pipe welder and I am talking about a in homw welding. A multi used machine's are never as good as single use. Plus they can do AC/DC welding, just get a cheap eastwood welder or a miller 140 for mig welding. Only thing I use my mig for is body panels and other small stuff. If I want a clean weld and nice weld, I use a tig..

2fast4u831

so which machines would you recommend he get?