KPDSM

Hi guys


A little background first...

I started a project back 2 or so years ago to basically learn everything. I got a running 96 civic auto for a good price. It's been on the road probably 9 months total since I've had it, and I have no issue with that.

It now has a full legal b swap in it with a number of other things these cars have needed throughout the years, and some tasteful other mods. I love the car and have been having fun with it in its almost "finished" stage as it pertains to me.
The only thing the car actually "needs" is paint at this point.

Me and my girl are planning to move to CA, and purchase a home. I have the ok from my lady that once we are in a home, I can start a build/swap/have a toy. I have been doing my research on the smog/bar requirements and laws as well, so I have a build in mind.

I wouldn't consider myself an expert mechanic by any means, though I have done 90 percent of the mods to my civic myself. What do you think a MODEST budget for a swap/project would be? Also give any other thoughts and opinions you have about a build in CA...

This car will be a weekend toy with mild daily driven use (I say mild because I'm coming from the NorthEast, I'm sure once I'm in CA and it's nice outside all the time...) and sporadic trips to the drag strip.

Let me know what you guys think, and I'll be happy to answer any questions if it'll help you help me!
Thx

DumpdEJ6

It really depends on what engine you're planning on swapping in and how far you want to take it, performance-wise. I spent $5600 on my LS-VTEC swap, but that includes decent headers, intake manifold, exhaust, ECU, machine shop work, a full rebuild with ARP and ACL components, dyno tuning, cams, etc.

If you're just looking to swap in a stock GSR engine and trans, you're looking at around $3000 or so, depending on where you get the engine.

Really it's impossible to say. Anywhere from $1k-$10k.

KPDSM

Thanks for your answer!

I don't PLAN to go as far as you for a couple reasons, though the build I have planned I think would make for a stout street motor.

I'm sure 5-6k would have me with a SERIOUS setup.

I'm looking to build up an LS/b18b1 for a couple reasons. (Smog/bar, familiarity)

I'm currently on a semi stock non v b series. As I said i really have been enjoying the setup but it DEFINITELY needs cams. Since I'll be starting from scratch, i will definitely have cams on the next setup.

I'm only worried about the cost of three things (if i opt to do them)

1. B16 pistons installed (I may be able to do it on my own but I've never done pistons aND don't know if I trust myself for that)
2. Rod bolt install (I keep seeing conflicting points, that they DEF need to be machined and that they DEF don't. We built a junkyard lsv some time ago with 70mm turbo that never turned a bearing over 45k mi of abuse before it got sold so I don't even know how I feel about rod bolts)
3. Valve spring install --
--I need to delve a little deeper into this. I had procured dual valve springs and retainers, oem valves, and seals about a year ago. I installed them successfully in a back up head I had, but when I went to use that head, the car lost compression. Idk what I did wrong. I'll most likely pull those springs and retainers out, get some OEM keepers and valve seals, and explore having someone do it for me (on another head, p75 head is easy to find.) Upsetting to me bc I swore I had it right, maybe I over ported it?

Planning on keeping my hondata computer, and a usdm intake mani shouldn't be hard to find.

Are you in Calif?

Also - I am not including the cost of tune with this build. I'll park it once it runs good and save up specifically for that. Will have to find a competent tuner in nor cal/cal (I'm sure it won't be an issue lol)

v4lu3s

Good luck passing emissions with good cams and compression in CA. Do they even have smog legal cams?

ShinsenTuner

iTrader: (1)

Always plan to overspend because you will.

SolAssassin

Before you get into this project, you may want to research CA emissions laws and what you're dealing with. You have some things to consider:

1) The car is OBD2
2) CA smog laws are the strictest in the country
3) The car is less than 25 years old

Don't get involved in a build only to find out they will not let you drive it on the road legally. California is a pretty unfriendly state when it comes to modified vehicles.

KPDSM

These are the type of responses I'm looking for, just with more concrete evidence/hands on experience...

Thats a good analysis.

I'm ok with stock pistons and no compression bump, but from what I understand, b16 pistons on that setup still run "stocklike" on premium pump gas, with stock computer. Also, the stage 2 and stage 3 cam run properly on stock computer as long as theyre zeroed out.

I don't know how they could know I had upgraded cams without literally taking the cam out and measuring them, and I dont KNOW but I dont think they check for something like that (how high your car revs, where it makes power, etc). As long as its a cali approved cat, and stockish exhaust (carb approved stuff) I don't see how it would be any/wildly different than a stock gsr...

Again, I don't know for a fact and have been researching, but hoping some CA guys (past and present) can chime in...partially why I made the thread haha

KPDSM

Sigh. I unfortunately know this is the truth. I'm trying to map SOMETHING out though so hopefully I don't go TOO far with the spending...

KPDSM

Thanks man

I have been as best I can in my off time from work.

1. I would plan to find a 93-94 civic or 94 integra to swap into (can find an obd1 engine to make life easy)
2. That I understand, but I've seen a few guys so far (in some older posts) say as long as your car is setup right(like stock) with the proper exhaust components and catch cans etc, people are having no issue with SMOG/BAR, or getting stickers to prove legality. Putting a setup to stock(ish) USDM won't be hard for me, as I have an RD1 to copy off of, as well as some other sources, plus most of that is just having the proper intake manifold(USDM). Small odds and parts and sensors are easily available online as well as in the store/dealer, I haven't had an issue finding anything for my current setup, so I know it can be done/found.

There is/was a guy on here that passed with a jdm (compression bump) gsr in eg/ej coupe. His post I think was from '13/'14 but his window sticker says "GSr with JDM block" or something similar. 1.8L was never offered in US civic, period, which got me on this thought process lol.

3. If Calif is this strict on the laws now, I don't think they're gonna allow late model honda to be exempt when the day comes. From just talking to people, in certain areas the smog is BADDDD. Even in two years with a 25 year old honda, I don't think they're gonna allow exempt. Maybe they won't check on board diagnostics anymore, but I'd assume they're going to keep that sniffer. Which means I'll have to be catted either way...something I learned to submit to some time ago as it pertains to honda lol

I fully agree...will prob be a bit easier for me when I'm actually physically there, as I can go physically ASK one of these spots, though I figured someone on here may have the answers or some insight...

v4lu3s

https://www.bar.ca.gov/Industry/Engi...uidelines.html

that's just an outline, through there i see that no aftermarket cams are legal for your choice of engine, if you can manage to tune it well enough to pass the UBER strict emissions standards you might be able to get away with very mild cams and very mild compression increase. Even the cams they allow for acura/Honda have delineated emissions requirement standards.

anyway here is one guys experience with an engine swap California BAR smog referee woes - R3VLimited Forums
3 hours of inspection by 3 technicians...and emissions test on a cold engine.

the guys i know that had swaps that went well were stock engine swaps with intake header and exhaust with EO numbers.

KPDSM

Thanks for the link! Big help...

That page pretty much helped my choice(s) out...and the more "performance oriented" part of this build will have to wait it seems...

B16 pistons = no
402/403 cam = eventually, but not for smog/bar (theres no friggin way if I pass the smog/bar, that if I get stopped in later months, that the police would know I had cams)
Rod bolts = still maybe


As for the gentleman whose link you posted, thanks for the insight there too. I suspected the Bay Area to be STRICT, thankfully I won't be looking to live in that area. Sac would be the closest to where we are looking to live, so that's actually good news lol (they dont seem as bad).

Secondly about that, he had to know something would happen without stock/stock appearing exhaust. That was like the first thing I thought of, I assume theyre gonna be crazy about the exhaust setups so my thought is go stock till I pass and just keep that stock exhaust in the basement in case...

I'll just literally have to swap in a FULLY STOCK b1 and deal with upgrades mods etc after all the legality!

Any more insight guys? thanks so far!

Calif_Kid

How thorough is the actual smog check they do for cars with engine swaps? I've lived in the SF Bay Area for many years, and when they added a dyno test to the biannual smog check, my 2000 Ford F150 had to do the dyno test for the smog check, but my two Audis (2001 A6 and S4 - both twin turbo V6's) didn't have to run on the dyno as they are both AWD and the dyno was only for 2 WD. Anyway, within the last few years, when I've gone in for the biannual smog checks, they didn't even hookup the sniffer to the exhaust, but instead, just scanned the obd2 port and did a quick visual examination. It was really surprising to me that they had stopped requiring the sniffer test as it might catch an issue that might not cause a fault for the ECU. The S4 was somewhat modified (slightly larger turbos - K04's instead of the original K03's plus different fuel injectors, reprogrammed ECU, downpipes, aftermarket cats, etc.), but I never had any issues with the visual checks either.

Anyway, just wondering how thorough the smog check actually is for cars with engine swaps. If the smog check for the swap still requires the sniffer to be hooked up, then do they go by the smog limits for the year of the car, the engine, or by whichever is newer (car or engine)? - Jim

ShinsenTuner

iTrader: (1)

If you are really into doing a swap I'd say go K. Honestly, you can get it to still be OBD2 compliant, there's tons of aftermarket support, and you can make good power with very little worry.

v4lu3s

of course to do a K swap you need to fabricate the no return fuel system, and every other emissions part from the donor car will need to be put in the civic.

before any smog check on a car with a swap you have to go to a referee and they inspect and smog it, once you pass them as I understand it you then can only smog check from there.

and to the OP, i think the cams etc later on after getting the engine running and legal is the best way. you can definitely get rod bolts in there or even rods and them not know, same with forged pistons that are very close to stock compression.

scottcraft

After reading this I feel somewhat better about living in backwoods Louisiana! Good luck op, hope you can figure out something that works.

ShinsenTuner

iTrader: (1)

Right but he can have 220whp with carb legal bolt ons and still be 100% legal. What's the point of rods and pistons if they're pretty much stock? No turbo... no mention of wanting nitrous, etc.

KPDSM

I'm fairly sure the smog check/limits are for the engine installed in the car...they're trying to limit the hybrids and such, for a number of reasons I'm sure.

Plus its basically REQUIRED that you swap in a newer engine than your model year vehicle. I think its technically same model year or newer...

And if my experience in this part of the country is going to be anything like my experience there, I'm sure just because it's a modified honda, they're gonna be scrutinizing HEAVY. That's fine, same sh*t on this coast, just trying to make sure I have all my ducks lined up. Usually, after a couple times when they realize I'm not a new driver they leave me alone...

KPDSM

I'm into the k swaps, but thats definitely a bit more involved than a b series. They also require some cutting/welding if I'm not mistaken, and that's something I hope to get better at with this car, more specifically welding.

Also, like v4lu3s said, it would be a little more involved then some of the other k series that I've seen because I'm fairly sure you have to bring the whole RSX fuel system over. I'll have to educate myself on how involved or not that is.

KPDSM

Cool - thanks for the info!

Yeah me too, thanks, just trying to get it hashed out in my head you know...

Do you have any personal experience with rod bolts on stock rods? I think the plan for now is to keep the block fairly stock. I was mostly considering the b16 pistons bc

1. OEM
2. Compression bump
3. Stock ECU ok

But if the rules specifically state no compression increases, they'll probably be looking for anything hinting at a compression bump, no?

KPDSM

Should have said earlier, once I'm running smoothly, I plan to play with some nitrous...90 percent of the time for the drag strip though, wet shot.

KPDSM

LOL.
Thanks, I'm only KIND of worried.

They already are trying to stop anyone from building race cars, whats next smh

If people are getting JDM engines passed with the right parts, that means it can definitely be done, and most of the stuff they want you to have installed really isnt that bad to install (especially with the engine out of the car).

v4lu3s

yes possible, but the cost will be very high. with the newer engine like that there will be a lot more wiring, probably swapping over an rsx gas tank due to sensors and emissions equipment, one guy that I know of that did it also swapped over the entire chassis and engine harness from the rsx, including gauge cluster and dash and did pass BAR. I am sure there are other ways of doing but he took several attempts due to the check engine lights constantly popping up...

If you put cams in and rev higher than stock rods do become more a concern, pistons you could probably bump up a little bit of compression and still get by with a stock ecu, like going from 9.5:1 to 10:1 (not like 9:1 to 12:1 though).

v4lu3s

I am currently running arp rod bolts on stock rods in a d16a6. the old rev limit was about 6200, right now i go to 7500 since i am not tuned. i also went from 9:1 to 11.5:1 and added a crane cam...before the cam with only compression i tried to run a stock ecu and it never ran right. b16 pistons will take you from about 9.5 to 11.5 to 1...i doubt a stock computer will be happy and i doubt emissions tests will be passed. maybe try USDM p72 pistons though, thats about 10:1. anyway on rod bolts in stock rods you have the machine shop oput them in torwue and rehone the big ends of the rods to stay round.

KPDSM

So here's what I'm thinking after all your guys great info

B18b or b18b1 stock long block
Stock parts or CARB exempt
*pass bar/ref

Lightly ported b18b head(exhaust and intake side)
*ARP Headstuds
*new valves
*new seals
*stage 2 cams
*dual valve springs

Nitrous kit (I already have the one I want....Either I'll send it to myself or buy another kit)

Build b18b1 block with
*rod bolts
*usdm b16a pistons
*ACL Race Bearings
Everything else fairly stock

That being said - I'm researching the plasti gauge and such so I can put a b1 together...anyone have any experience with this?

I'm fairly sure I just have to put a small piece, Torque to spec, take it back apart, and hold it up next to the paper to make sure I'm within limits, and as long as it's within service limits, I'm ok

If I can get an LS motor in the 160-190 hp range I'll be happy. That's gsr whp with flat torque band and no vtec...

KPDSM

If I use pr3 pistons, I'll be at 10.8. With only premium fuel, do you think i'll be ok? I'll still be using a stock/replacement style cat so I can't imagine emissions being crazy...

I was just out there and they for SURE have 91/92 Oct at the pump...

Pr3 pistons, stock cams, ls computer = pass? Yes?