forbiddenera

Okay, so I made a brief mention of my idea last night in my electronic linear actuated wastegate thread and already received a PM this morning..

In along with my EWG project, I wanted to program my microcontroller to read the serial output from an OBD1 ecu running Crome/eCtune/Hondata and convert it to an OBD2 output wired to an OBD2 port, allowing scanning from a scan tool for errors and able to watch output from sensors, more importantly, I could plug in my BT OBD2 and use Torque. Now I could just use my BT chip and output the values over BT directly and skip the OBD2 port but..I thought..

How many out there stuck with emissions testing could maybe use this? Now, don't flame me because I don't have emissions here and I don't know the laws for each state but from what I have read on the forums over the years is having a working OBD2 port and no CEL codes is key.

TL/DR; How many people would be interested in a kit (wouldn't be too pricy) that would come with a (mostly prewired) OBD2 port and the necessary microcontroller and programming to interface between Hondata/Crome/eCtune? This would give you a (partially) functional OBD2 port.

Some things may have to be emulated and again since I don't know the emissions laws, I don't know if it's legal or helpful.

Note, this would probably only work for chipped ECUs, I'm not sure the stock Honda protocol is available anywhere.

1999 Civic Si

I think its a good idea and would interested in one, I live in Missouri, where most of the counties just have safety inspection. But a few counties (including the one I live in) require safety and emissions. But the emissions where I live is just them plugging the computer into the machine and letting the car sit for like thirty minutes while the computer checks for certain sensor readings and readiness codes, check engine lights, etc...

Which my Hondata s300 reads/uses the sensors the computer checks for, its just the obd2b port doesn't work with that ecu. I can even find my print out from the test and check what all it actually looks for while testing. Since my car is a 1999 model I only have to have 2 or 3 readiness monitors set and I can pass, I think that law varies by state.

Someone may need to confirm this, but I believe the only sensors the obd1 ecu doesn't look for/use when used on a obd2 car is the crank sensor (on oil pump on obd2b), rear O2 sensor, charcoal canister/evap sensor and purge solenoid.

forbiddenera

OBD1 has control of the purge but I don't think it monitors any input IIRC.

Second O2 was my first thought on a problem with this although it would be possible to tie in any extra sensors to my unit itself.

Although, what might be even easier is hooking said sensors up to extra analog lines on the ecu or chip board (in case of demon/hondata) There's a couple for eCtune, not sure if Crome supports any, Neptune and Hondata do. These could easily be read over serial and plotted over the OBD2 port.

Your stock O2 could be your front O2, your wideband could be your rear O2. :-D

Plus again, you could use any OBD2 gauge app instead of being limited to TunerView (AFAIK the only one that supports any obd1 protocols).

Also, I'd be willing to code in support for other systems like Nismotronic, Quarterhorse, etc assuming the interest was there.

If the interest is there, I will consider opensourcing the project as well as selling kits to do it at a reasonable cost. I'd estimate under $100 for a kit.

forbiddenera

Bump. Anyone?

TomCat39

Are you aware there was already a fair amount of this already done?

When I get home I will see if I can find the links and share them. It was an open source project.

forbiddenera

No, I wasn't, as I said I was mainly interested in hacking it together for personalunch use but if can be useful to others that be great.

Please do share any information you can find! Thanks

TomCat39

andyz built a little something for OBD1 honda ecu's. Read his posts in my old thread:

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...apter-3184738/

He supplied the schematics and open source for the software here:

https://github.com/andyzsmith/HonOBDapt

forbiddenera

Thanks a bunch for pointing that out! I'm glad to see I'm not the first person to experiment with this, looks like it's Arduino code too, which is what I was planning on using (easy to get, easy to use for most people, and I wanted to keep this opensource/free-ish with an option to buy a pre-made unit)

I've just (after 2 years of procrastinating which I seriously regret now) hooked up with my local hacker space, and found out that besides an electronics shop (scopes, power supplies, generators, hot air stations, etc etc) and 3d printing lab they have a full machine shop, welding area, casting area and wood shop.

I'm going to use this resource a lot with my EWG project but it may help a bit with this too.

Interest seems to be the key thing - unfortunately, it is a very niche thing.. It looks like the other guy was aiming more towards stock ECUs while I'm interested in chipped ones, though if he's laid the groundwork for stock ECUs I'm happy to include support for that too.

Perhaps what would make this reach a wider audience is supporting other "OBD" protocols, such as ALDL and make it a more universal device. I could also fab an add-on board allowing direct sampling and monitoring of sensors, might be a bit overkill but you could theoretically implement OBD2 monitoring for any type of sensor, automotive or otherwise.

Is anyone aware of somewhere I can purchase a new OBD2 port? I'd rather not build these hacking off ports off of cars in the JY, though I'm not sure if any manufacturer would sell them in low quantities - though, I'd imagine many manufacturers may have one available as a 'replacement part'..

Cheers

TomCat39

Would something like this work?:

https://www.aliexpress.com/premium/o...23&blanktest=0

For small lots, china is the cheap way to go just takes forever shipping with customs and all.

Or this?:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/16-p...310927973.html

forbiddenera

The first didn't load for me but the second could work, just chop the end off and solder it to my board..

forbiddenera

Maybe you meant something like this : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Newest-Universal-16-Pin-OBD-2-OBD-Female-Diagnostic-Tool-Connector-plug-Shell/32315976723.html

It's funny, the female option shows male plug, and male option shows female plug haha.

It's a possibility. I'd like any potential users to be able to mount it as cleanly as possible. Most stock Obd2 ports snap right into a metal bracket that would be easy to fab/use from some car/bolt on easy, but I haven't searched yet TBH but I do appreciate you doing some research and posting your results, the more interest there is, the more motivated I'll be to do this, though as I said I plan on it anyway for my own purposes.

1999 Civic Si

Well if it helps any I am still interested in this. Not much help with getting it working or getting the OBD2 ports though, but I am always up for being a test dummy. lol

forbiddenera

Yep, it definitely helpsounds. More interest is better, spread the word while I tinker.

TomCat39

The first link was to a male plug with board and separated case. It's when I realized you would probably be looking for female plugs.

forbiddenera

Sounds like it could be nice.

Looking for male? I guess, whatever is normally in a vehicle, well, maybe that's why that site listed it backgwards

The female plug looks like a male as it sticks out but has holes for the pins and the male plug looks like a female due to the shroud but is technically male because of the pins.

So, yes I need female.

DumpdEJ6

To be clear, we are talking about an OBD1 ECU being output to an OBD2 port, correct? I have a 1999 Civic (OBD2b) with an LSVTEC tuned on an OBD1 ECU using Crome, and I have a devil of a time getting past emissions every year. It sucks taking it back to stock enough to run on an OBD2 ECU.

forbiddenera

Yes, this is exactly what we're talking about! If you're interested, stay tuned, tell anyone you know in the same situation.

I've been spending sometime with the ELM327 datasheet, might end up using one.

BongoBennie

Lets say I have a 2008 Honda car and install a Motec box, I would love to have an "OBD port" that will give a passing score to whom ever might judge its output. Maybe this black box would have an RPM input and a CEL output....... Id buy that for sure.

forbiddenera

Motec doesn't have obd2 capabilities stock???

Hmm! Thanks for pointing that out I guess, definitely something I'll add to my list. As for inputs, having an RPM input would basically be moot - all the data will be read over some sort of a bus, converted and relayed as OBD2.

It has no CEL output either? I'll have to do more research on this side of some aftermarket ECUs, read tons about tuning aspects but never thought about obd2 for a second, I figured any high end standalone would have obd2 stock?!

But I'll add it to my list, I'm happy to try and support any/all ECUs that would make such a product more attractive to a wider user base!

BongoBennie

Yeah, OBD2 for data acquisition would be pointless on a motec/aem etc as the laptop will do a much better job, but with the once a year thing it would need to pass the test. I have tried to figure out if I can run an 04 rsx ecu (kpro) in my 08 element and wire up the car as an 04 but never did full understand what the OBD2 difference would be.

TomCat39

I remember seeing a discussion about third party engine management and if I recall, it's a legal issue that prevents third party EMS to have OBD2 compliant output.

forbiddenera

Disappointing but likely true.

Can anyone find any laws pertaining to this? I know it's been a while, I haven't been able to get my laptop to data log for a while (any of my laptops) turns out I forgot to change the buffer and latency settings in windows for the ftdi? After that it seemed to work.. either that or I really do have a loose wire or bad ground but I've checked and searched and checked and..

Anyway now that I can actually data log again, the next step is to get my BT chip to send to my tablet or other BT chip attached to my arduino. Last I tried, I wasn't getting output from the BT chip either (which added to my confusion and hair tearing)

1999 Civic Si

If I get a chance I can try and dig into the law for the state I live in, but honestly this is one of those things that would vary by state (if in the USA) or country and how strict they are at enforcing that law. Probably be one of those "For off road use only" parts. Fortunately I found out I can apply for an emissions exemption for my civic as long as I stay under 12k miles every two years, so I just have to worry about safety and staying under 12k miles. lol

I also keep forgetting to take a picture of my emissions paper to show what was actually looked for while the system is performing the emissions test.

forbiddenera

No responses lately...darn..

still planning on doing this..I now have an arduino mega, pi3. buspirate, a 4ch portable scope (dsoquad) and 2 obd2 ports fully pinned for testing.

I'm also considering making a replacement touchscreen climate control system for EG.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Surprised I never replied to this thread. Always interested in this stuff. I have a Teensy 3.5 (has everything needed right on board, in an aptly named package) still sitting around waiting for me to to have time to figure stuff out. There's not a lot of information out there regarding spoofing the ecu side of the conversation.

My hiccups:

- Figuring out what parameters and monitors are offered p by a given ecu
- Figuring out what parameters I should be testing for
- Initializing communication with the test equipment is a bit daunting at my current skill level (bit banging, etc, are not my forte by any means)

As far as the legal issue, aftermarket ecus are basically automatically excluded from any chance to legally have obd2... anything that deviates from what the manufacturer intended to run the car, including the calibration, is not stock and is therefore not technically road legal. It's not a state-by-state issue, although there may be a loophole or a lack of enforcement in a given state that makes it easier to get away with a modified engine and/or ecu. Haltech, I believe, has functionality available on their newer ecus but it is totally up to the user to set it up.

Anything that you wish to develop needs to be clearly labeled and marketed as being for off-road use, benchtop research, or some other non-road use that you can come up with. An obd1 ecu that is transmitting obd2 pids is in no way an obd2 ecu despite that functionality, even if you took your project all the way to meeting the entire protocol. Any device that you build that is used to imply to an official test device that you have obd2 functionality, no matter how legitimate and complete that functionality is, is fraudulent and potentially perjurious.

Beyond that, I'm definitely interested and may be interested in teaming up to help develop. Interested to see what you've come up with.