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AWD Conversion ForumThis forum is to help with the recent advent of new AWD conversions. Got a question? Ask it here. Got an answer? Drop the knowledge here
Might as well upgrade to better axles instead of wasting money on replacing boots. I dunno how many times you wanna go down there and I'm sure you want to "forget" it after replacing them. Your decision.
Kind of my thought process as well and that's what I ended up doing. Yeah, I am getting sick of replacing boots. Every time I have to replace a boot I eather have to drop the rear diff, or pretty much remove the entire rear trailing arm.
Originally Posted by BrakeExpert
For lower power Hondas, lots of us use Duralast axles at Autozone with a lifetime warranty, sometimes they're as low as 50$ an axle (new, not reman). If you're spending 25$ per single boot, for 50$ you could get a whole new CV axle opposed to just rubber boots. That's something you may wanna consider. 25$ for a rubber or neoprene boot seems high.
I think the lowest I was finding them locally was around $70 and axle. It was a thought, but you also have to turn in cores to get them at that price. $140 and give them the Honda OEM axles just didn't sound like a good deal. I want to keep the stockers just in case I need them and I wouldn't be very happy if I was breaking Duralast specials and having to replace them all of the time. I know it's more money for the Insane Shafts, but nothing like DSS prices. This way I get to keep the OEM axles as well.
Originally Posted by Chance EG
The Insane Shafts axles are very nice pieces but I'm not sure if there's really any difference between those and OEM or even AutoZone CV boots. They're basically just little rubber covers after all.
Actually the boots on the Insane shafts feel a bit thicker, so I'm hoping they stand up to the test. The axles themselves don't look like much. Hopefully they are made out of unobtainium or something, because the diameter of the shafts are slightly smaller than the OEMs. I haven't opened up the CV boots to look inside, but noting on the outside looks special about them. Guess we will find out. The stock axles (CV joints and shafts) were standing up to all of the power and abuse just fine, so if I start breaking axles now... Not going to be happy.
Originally Posted by PhiLLyMYdiLLy
nice times! ill def keep an eye on this thread.
Thanks, and do. I'm looking to make some adjustments and improve on those times very soon.
Put about 80 miles on the Instane Shafts this past weekend. Got a couple of launches in too with the E85 fuel and tune. Everything seems to be holding together with them. There is still plenty of room for the axle shafts, even with 1/2" extra length on them. The boots seem to be holding up well thus far too. I'll post up some comparison pics of the axles here soon. I did find a leak coming from the left front of the car when I got home from the drive. Found my left front wheel was all wet too. Apperently I started leaking brake fluid at some point in the drive. That is a scary thought. Thought it was a brake line, but turns out I have a seal leaking from one of the pistons in the Brembo caliper. Have to pull it back apart
I think the lowest I was finding them locally was around $70 and axle. It was a thought, but you also have to turn in cores to get them at that price. $140 and give them the Honda OEM axles just didn't sound like a good deal. I want to keep the stockers just in case I need them and I wouldn't be very happy if I was breaking Duralast specials and having to replace them all of the time. I know it's more money for the Insane Shafts, but nothing like DSS prices. This way I get to keep the OEM axles as well..
With advance auto you no longer need a core when you 1st buy.
Here are the Insane Shafts compared to the OEMs. The OEMs actually look longer, but they are not. It's just with the boots being stretched out they look this way. Insane Shafts only offers rear axles for the CR-V in the 02-06 model. They have a slightly wider track then the first gen CR-Vs, so the axles are 1/2" longer each. Because of where I positioned my rear diff, I have plenty of room to run these axles without them binding up. The axle shafts of the OEMs are just a hair thicker than the Insane Shafts. That's about the only notable difference as far as appearance. So far the boots are holding up. Haven't driven it much with the front caliper leaking though, so I need to fix that before I can put any more miles on the Civic.
Not to be endorsing Autozone, but I wanna clarify axle cost. No you don't need to turn in cores to get Duralast gold axles. When i said lifetime warranty, that includes 'lifetime replacement' meaninfg if they get rusty in 10 years you can remove em and swap em out for free as many times as you want. They are new, not used, and don't think Honda's axles are like 10 times better. These are axles, not piston rings or rod bearings. Think of it more like brake pads. almost anything you can get thats even a cheap ceramic pad is better than stock Honda pads (in terms of bite and stopping power). Honda OEM axles aren't that great and for high HP applications are not worth keeping. I bought a set of duralast gold axles for my d16 years and years ago and went through 3 sets, one set i ran over some shrapnel that tore the boots (dirt contamination can ruin any axle). I'm sure the DSS axles are good but I'm saying the Duralast Gold are not a cheapo axle. I know what you may be thinking, and their regular Duralast line are on par with the 'regular' ones where you see two shafts that were welded back together and balanaced, I don't run those either. Those are like 30$ ones with cores you get at napa or stuff, I getcha. But I've dealt with lots of aftermarket parts and some from the car chains can be pretty good. Some can be sucky, so its worth researching. There are people who insist on rebuilding OEM axles before the boots rip and regreasing it themselves, and for lower HP applications, this could result in these lasting a very long time. But for fatigue from some extra power, id go with somethin like the duralast gold ones and swap em out free every 2 or 3 years and you'd be ok.
Thank you BrakeExpert, duly noted. Maybe that's what I should have gone with, but I was already $75+ worth of boots into the OEMs, wasn't sure of the quality of aftermarkets, and thought that I would have to give up the OEMs like I thought I would have to. My main issue is really just the boots, as the axles themselves have been holding up just fine. I was going to have to spend another $140+ to replace all of the boots with Honda OEM. The boots that I have been getting from Autozone and O'Riley's are in fact junk. They would probably be ok for a while if my axles were set up straight with little to no angle in them, but this is not the case. The quality of those boots are without question inferior to OEM. So I really didn't have a choice but to replace with all Honda OEM boots, or try out the Insane Shafts and hope the quality of their boots where up to par. In comparison straight out of the box, I can see the boots on the Insane Shafts are a bit thicker and so far have been holding up. Only time will tell.
Oh aftermarket boot kits suck, none of em are any good. For the price of a good one, you can get a new axle usually. You mean those 2 piece boots you fix with zip ties? As most shops agree sadly, when the boots rip, you get grease contamination almost immediatly and its a crapshoot if those new boots are good. Neoprene is decent, but any 2 piece boot...tis a gamble. Now I'm wanting to go AWD in my EK too.
No, no, NO my friend, give me some credit. I have never and would (pretty much) never use a split boot on anything. Can't imagine those things work for ****. I'd much rather do the all of the work to get a "one piece" boot on rather than saving the time. Don't see much of a point in those things, but maybe the technology has advanced.
Made it the drags last night and brought home a couple of slips for your viewing pleasure. It was a frustrating night as Wild Horse Pass Race Park really needs to get their **** together when hosting the Friday Night Drags. First off they only offer the Friday Night Drags once or twice every few months, so it's just packed with a ton of cars making it difficult to do anything. It's also Bike Week here in Arizona, so there were a **** ton of bikes at the track that were taking up track time. I don't mind the bikers and in fact enjoy watching those nut cases blast down the track. Usually there are only 6-10 of them though during non Bike Weeks. You can imagine how long it took to get through tech. Another thing (and this is probably the biggest thing) is that they need to have a separate Night for cars that run 9.99 and under. Just about everyone of those cars broke on the track and delayed the races for 15-20 min while they cleaned and inspected the track. All of this added up to paying $65 for two passes within 5 1/2 hours. Very frustrating. To top it off, the GM was just fired and he took with him all of his contracts, one of them being Torco fuel. And guess who didn't bring their own fuel this time. Ya, so I was **** out of luck on that.
Alright, I'm done bitching so let's get to the good stuff.
I only had pump e85 (e59 at this time), and I was smart enough to at least bring that with me. So I was able to run eventhough it was on a milder tune. Another highlight is that I got through tech! I still worry that if they dig deep enough, they will find something that doesn't pass. They did say that I need a fire jacket now, but they let me race. And finally, nothing broke on me this time and I ended up running my fastest time to date. So in all it was a successful night.
Ok, my first run was on a tune that I have not played with yet. My boost-by-gear was still on and I was limited to about 16psi. I no longer need boost-by-gear being AWD as traction is no longer an issue. My launch was flawless and AWESOME, and I was able to shift though all gears without any issues. It felt slow though, which it was. Still not too bad with a 12.3 considering my best time up to this point was a 12.1. We quickly made some changes to the tune and then waited for about 3 hours to run again.
The second run was much improved and I was pretty surprised how well it went on the e59. I pulled in the burnout box and lit up the front tires. Then I locked it in 4 and agin launched it hard. I still get a kick out of doing that BTW. I am launching at about 5000 RPM and from the Datalog it looks like the engine bogs to 4200 RPM during the launch. Something to work on in the future. I ran through all of the gears flawlessly again until 4th when I hit the 8400 RPM rev limiter. I was just trying to make it through the traps without having to shift into 5th. No luck though. That killed my top speed and I bested only an 11.52. I was still pretty happy with that as I have now dipped into the 11s and that was on a mild tune with pump gas. Can't be mad about that. Datalog showed boost hitting 22.8, so that still leaves a little psi on the table.
So only two runs, but they were good ones. Plenty of more room for improvement and nothing broke! There is another Friday Night Drags in two weeks, so I will be back at it and bringing my own fuel this time damnet!! I will post some videos of these runs soon. Thanks for checking in!
Nice times! How much do you think you'll gain without the boost by gear?
Thanks! Just by going into Hondata and changing from "Gear based targeted boost" to "Fixed duty cycle" in the Control Method section of the Boost Control, shaved off 6/10s of a second. I had to guesstimate the percentage of fixed duty cycle was best. I went with 44% and that worked well, but I think there is room to increase it to 45-46%. At 44% the engine was seeing consistent 22.3 psi boost press with an occasional spike of 23.2 psi. On the e59 fuel I can go a little over 24 psi and still be alright. Now that I have traction with the AWD set-up, there is no need to have boost-by-gear on. Boost-by-gear significantly limits the amount of boost the engine will see in each gear so that the front wheels will not spin. With AWD I can use as much boost as the Civic can handle. That is, until I break traction or break axles.
Thanks! Just by going into Hondata and changing from "Gear based targeted boost" to "Fixed duty cycle" in the Control Method section of the Boost Control, shaved off 6/10s of a second. I had to guesstimate the percentage of fixed duty cycle was best. I went with 44% and that worked well, but I think there is room to increase it to 45-46%. At 44% the engine was seeing consistent 22.3 psi boost press with an occasional spike of 23.2 psi. On the e59 fuel I can go a little over 24 psi and still be alright. Now that I have traction with the AWD set-up, there is no need to have boost-by-gear on. Boost-by-gear significantly limits the amount of boost the engine will see in each gear so that the front wheels will not spin. With AWD I can use as much boost as the Civic can handle. That is, until I break traction or break axles.
It's going to be interesting to see how it does without bbg. I'm sure you'll be testing those axles for sure!
Thank you. People still don't believe it is AWD when they see it. Takes some convincing, and still they have to under the Civic for the diff. It's entertaining.
Originally Posted by dylspil
awesome stuff, good to see you're working through the issues and having success with it!
The Civic has come a long way, and little by little the bugs are getting worked out. It really has been pretty solid so far. I am impressed every time I drive it.
Originally Posted by scottcraft
It's going to be interesting to see how it does without bbg. I'm sure you'll be testing those axles for sure!
I disabled the bbg on the second run, which is why the Civic ran so much quicker. The low boost settings in the bbg was slowing me down. The axles have held up great thus far. On this tune the Civic was making around 480 hp and 370 tq. On the T85 fuel, she puts out 550 hp and 430 tq in which the axles held up just fine then too. This is all to my surprise as I really thought the rear axles would have snapped by now. Not yet though. I do try my best to load drivetrain before I launch it, so I'm sure that is helping.
"Only an 11.52" hahahahah **** man that's sick. Taller tires needed if you wanna stay in 4th, might be time for some drag radials on all 4 corners!!
Berz out.
Ya, that's all we could do this time, hehe. I think a couple of more runs and I would have been flirting with 10s. Ya, I said it! I would definitely like to stay in 4th though the traps. I am looking into some re-gearing options for the transmission. I will probably upgrade the valve train this summer to so that I can rev to 9000. That alone may keep me out 5th gear. So far the Nitto NT-01s have proven to be quite sticky. I can spin them on the streets, but haven't been able to on the track with as much prep as they do to it. Anything too sticky might very well be the end of my axles. Thanks for checking in Berz.
Hope the coilovers we built for you, also helped you out on the track! Glad to see you hit the track with the car lately! Thanks again for posting your review, and posting some nice shots of your project, and install. Clean!
03-15-2017, 11:22 PM
Re: Not Another AWD Civic Project!!!
I still worry that if they dig deep enough, they will find something that doesn't pass. They did say that I need a fire jacket now, but they let me race. And finally, nothing broke on me this time and I ended up running my fastest time to date. So in all it was a successful night.
I am launching at about 5000 RPM and from the Datalog it looks like the engine bogs to 4200 RPM during the launch. Something to work on in the future. I ran through all of the gears flawlessly again until 4th when I hit the 8400 RPM rev limiter. I was just trying to make it through the traps without having to shift into 5th. No luck though. That killed my top speed and I bested only an 11.52. I was still pretty happy with that as I have now dipped into the 11s and that was on a mild tune with pump gas. Can't be mad about that. Datalog showed boost hitting 22.8, so that still leaves a little psi on the table.
