Mystery CEL code driving me crazy cannot pass smog - Honda-Tech


Mystery CEL code driving me crazy cannot pass smog

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Old 03-13-2017, 08:50 AM   #1
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Icon5 Mystery CEL code driving me crazy cannot pass smog

Hi there,

so long story short a friend of mine "inherited" a 1998 accord with an f23.

ive been working on Honda's for years but im at my wits end.

​​​​​this car had a laundry list of CEL codes and I've eliminated all but one. For the cam sensor. I did check the cam sensor and it was within spec. But given the miles (200k) even though its not the original engine, i decided to just put a whole new distributor. Since i already did the plugs, wires, O2 sensors.

BUT, to my chagrin and irritation the code remained. The only difference now is the code comes on immediately after start up. Before (with the old dizzie) if I cleared the code it wouldn't come back on for a while.
so somethings not right. Idk if there is a wiring issue, continutity, or her ecm is faulty or what.

That code didn't even come on untill a couple days after I replaced the crank sensor.

so before I go ripping apart the wiring harness to check for continuity, or maybe try putting the new cam sensor from the new dizzie into the old one to see what happens, etcetera....

perhaps you could lend me some insight?

I would greatly appreciate it.
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:01 PM   #2
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Default Re: Mystery CEL code driving me crazy cannot pass smog

just run a continuity test between the distributor pins and ecu pins, and ground. no need to tear anything apart. just unplug them
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Old 03-13-2017, 09:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: Mystery CEL code driving me crazy cannot pass smog

It's likely the code you're seeing is for the crank sensor or tdc sensor assembly at the crank. Perhaps you didn't plug in the tdc sensor connector all the way or the timing pulley or balance shaft pulley is dirty and it's reading the signal right.
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Old 03-14-2017, 04:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mystery CEL code driving me crazy cannot pass smog

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Originally Posted by holmesnmanny View Post
It's likely the code you're seeing is for the crank sensor or tdc sensor assembly at the crank. Perhaps you didn't plug in the tdc sensor connector all the way or the timing pulley or balance shaft pulley is dirty and it's reading the signal right.
thank you all for your help.

I have to believe it isnt the crank sensor. When it threw a code for that, I replaced it. And the code never came back. But a few days later it threw the code for the cam sensor (p1381) so, I replaced the whole dizzie. But the code wont go away. It acts just like the cam senor is still bad (jumps when you put it in gear, uneven idle, etc)

I'll double check the plug for the crank sensor is connected properly.

but, I think I just have to check for continuity from the ecm to the dizzie.

I have to start somewhere.
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: Mystery CEL code driving me crazy cannot pass smog

It's entirely possible when you got a code that won't go away, and the wiring is fine, for the ecu to be bad.

Given it's timing to pop up after replacing the crank sensor assembly, you need to get some brake cleaner and clean the crap out of the pulleys that the crank and tdc sensors read off of.
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:48 AM   #6
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Icon3 Re: Mystery CEL code driving me crazy cannot pass smog

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Originally Posted by holmesnmanny View Post
It's entirely possible when you got a code that won't go away, and the wiring is fine, for the ecu to be bad.

Given it's timing to pop up after replacing the crank sensor assembly, you need to get some brake cleaner and clean the crap out of the pulleys that the crank and tdc sensors read off of.
Thank you again for getting back to me.

Hmm, well I'll definitely clean that out again just incase. Im gona double check everything. But when i cracked open the timing case cover it was surprisingly clean. And I did clean it out when I put the new crank sensor.

We live in las vegas. So, no rain.

Not much to get things dirty besides the dust. She's bringing it back tomorrow so I can try and trace what the problem is.

I found a wiring diagram but just in case, do you know where I can find one you would use so I can match the wires from the distributor plug down to the ECM? And (since im checking everything) the crank sensor plug wires, etc.

This is what I found. It looks pretty complete.

and like I said, ive worked on these cars for years. I've done engine swaps, etc.
I had a 12 second '93 4-door civic N/A with a B17 and a YS1 transmission
I had a 4-door '96 integra with an H23 and an H22 VTEC head.
I had an '83 CRX (first year of production) with a holley carb. Ha ha ha, they switched to fuel injection the next year. So only the '83's were carbureted. I remember the alternator fell out on my way to work one day. (Still made it to work) but that was all a long time ago.

ahhh memories......

but my God, this stupid damn accord had like 10 CEL codes for godsake.


Anyway, so this is what I found. It looks pretty complete..

DTC P1381: CYP SENSOR INTERMITTENT INTERRUPTION, DTC P1382: CYP SENSOR NO SIGNAL

1. Reset the ECM/PCM.

2. Start the engine. Is DTC P1381, and/or P1382 indicated?
YES - Go to step 3. NO - Intermittent failure, system is OK at this time.
Check for poor connections or loose wires at the distributor and the ECM/PCM.

3. Check for poor connections at the ignition (spark plug) wires. Are the wires OK?
YES - Go to step 4. NO - Correct as necessary.

4. Check the condition of the ignition wires. Are the wires OK?
YES - Go to step 5. NO - Replace the ignition wires.

5. Turn the ignition switch OFF.

6. Disconnect the distributor 4P connector.

7. For the F23A1 or F23A4 engine, measure resistance between distributor 4P connector terminals No. 3 and No. 4.






Is there 800-1,500 ohm?
YES - Go to step 8. NO - Replace the ignition distributor housing.

8. For the F23A1 or F23A4 engine, check for continuity between body ground and the distributor connector terminals No. 3 and No. 4 individually.




Is there continuity?
YES - Replace the ignition distributor housing. NO - Go to step 9.

9. Reconnect the distributor 4P connector.

10. Disconnect ECM/PCM connector C (31P).

11. Measure resistance between ECM/PCM connector terminals C29 and C30.




Is there 800-1,500 ohm?
YES - Go to step 12. NO - Repair open in the wire between the ECM/PCM (C29, C30) and the distributor.

12. Check for continuity between body ground and ECM/PCM connector terminal C29.




Is there continuity?
YES - Repair short in the wire between the ECM/PCM (C29) and the distributor. NO - Substitute a known-good ECM/PCM and recheck. If the symptom/indication goes away, replace the original ECM/PCM.
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Old 03-15-2017, 08:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Mystery CEL code driving me crazy cannot pass smog

Think I found the problem. Of all things, the alternator.
after that, the erratic idle and instant CEL code after startup went away. It would start and drive normal. It was overcharging.
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Old 03-15-2017, 09:21 PM   #8
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Default Re: Mystery CEL code driving me crazy cannot pass smog

Think I found the problem. Of all things, the alternator.
after that, the erratic idle and instant CEL code after startup went away. It would start and drive normal.
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:56 AM   #9
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Icon4 Re: Mystery CEL code driving me crazy cannot pass smog

Quote:
Originally Posted by holmesnmanny View Post
It's likely the code you're seeing is for the crank sensor or tdc sensor assembly at the crank. Perhaps you didn't plug in the tdc sensor connector all the way or the timing pulley or balance shaft pulley is dirty and it's reading the signal right.

so, I havent had the time to change it yet (maybe tomorrow) but it looks like the alternator is the culprit.

if you clear the code, but unplug the alternator before you start it, it wont immediately throw the cam CEL code. Like it does normally And runs perfectly fine.

actually, while she was here today, I cleared the code, unplugged the alternator, drove it around, smogged it.
when we came back, I charged her A/C and before she left I plugged the alternator back in since she was going home, and it actually stalled engine. Right after she started it back up.

And Right away, instant cell code for the cam sensor, erratic idle, etc
​​​​​

​​​​​so i have to.think.thats the problem. Tomorrow i'll be changing the.alternator since she got a a new one. So hopefully this fixes the damn problem


Cheers!
​​​​​
​​​​​​

​​​​​​



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