Why remove ABS?
10-19-2008, 10:14 PM
#3
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Re: Why remove ABS? (__oversea)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by __oversea »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">real race drivers can drive better w/o abs.</TD></TR></TABLE>
On a race track with predictable conditions/circumstances, run off zones, gravel pits and tire barriers.
~~~
I have only owned one car with abs. I have come close to rear ending someone on the hwy but if I had locked the brakes I probably would have still stopped on time.
I think abs is a valuable feature because when the **** hits the fan and you are just cruising along in a relaxed state. You most likely will not have the race car driver reflexes you think you have.
Especially if the car is in cruise control, its raining, happen to be eating or drinking, or just talking on the phone. I'm sure we are all perfect and are not guilty of doing any of that while driving though.
On a daily driven street car having abs is better than not having it.
On a race track with predictable conditions/circumstances, run off zones, gravel pits and tire barriers.
~~~
I have only owned one car with abs. I have come close to rear ending someone on the hwy but if I had locked the brakes I probably would have still stopped on time.
I think abs is a valuable feature because when the **** hits the fan and you are just cruising along in a relaxed state. You most likely will not have the race car driver reflexes you think you have.
Especially if the car is in cruise control, its raining, happen to be eating or drinking, or just talking on the phone. I'm sure we are all perfect and are not guilty of doing any of that while driving though.
On a daily driven street car having abs is better than not having it.
10-20-2008, 10:45 AM
#4
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Re: Why remove ABS? (__oversea)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by __oversea »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">real race drivers can drive better w/o abs.</TD></TR></TABLE>
where ? on a rally course?
on a paved track ABS is always FASTER. why do you think classes that have optional ABS have a weight penalty for using it ?
where ? on a rally course?
on a paved track ABS is always FASTER. why do you think classes that have optional ABS have a weight penalty for using it ?
10-21-2008, 06:18 PM
#6
abs mite be faster but it doenst react the same to some people. if your on road course you know whats comin up and what to expect like he said. i have a buddy who likes no abs. i dont care either way its just nicer to have it usually.
removing it helps in looks some weight and cleaning up of all the lines in there
removing it helps in looks some weight and cleaning up of all the lines in there
10-22-2008, 06:04 AM
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Re: Why remove ABS? (uses0ap)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by uses0ap »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i was wondering why people remove their ABS. </TD></TR></TABLE>
It might or might not be better, depending on the particular car. I've always felt that the '00 ITR ABS on my track car was really very good and decently nonaggressive. If I notice the ABS groan, I know I'm about at the limit of what I can do in that corner.
On the other hand, if my track car were a 1973 Mercedes, the ABS would be disconnected or removed, for a certainty.
It just depends.
I think that generally, modern cars have very good ABS systems.
Modern cars can present you with choices that you won't necessarily like when tracking them, too. On some cars the only way to disconnect the vehicle stability control and traction control is to also disconnect the ABS.
It might or might not be better, depending on the particular car. I've always felt that the '00 ITR ABS on my track car was really very good and decently nonaggressive. If I notice the ABS groan, I know I'm about at the limit of what I can do in that corner.
On the other hand, if my track car were a 1973 Mercedes, the ABS would be disconnected or removed, for a certainty.
It just depends.
I think that generally, modern cars have very good ABS systems.
Modern cars can present you with choices that you won't necessarily like when tracking them, too. On some cars the only way to disconnect the vehicle stability control and traction control is to also disconnect the ABS.
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10-22-2008, 12:49 PM
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Re: Why remove ABS? (HondamanXxX)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondamanXxX »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's a love hate thing and I hate it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
You don't hate flatspotted tires more?
ABS is a great backup. If you press hard enough to activate it, yes, you are giving up braking distance, so lift just enough to get back off the ABS into threshold braking. You can learn to threshold brake thanks to the ABS feedback (you can feel it pulse modulate the pressure through the pedal), without ever having to worry about killing tires.
And if you already know how to threshold brake perfectly, every time, without ever slipping up, well, you'll never have it activate anyway so it is of no hindrance.
You don't hate flatspotted tires more?
ABS is a great backup. If you press hard enough to activate it, yes, you are giving up braking distance, so lift just enough to get back off the ABS into threshold braking. You can learn to threshold brake thanks to the ABS feedback (you can feel it pulse modulate the pressure through the pedal), without ever having to worry about killing tires.
And if you already know how to threshold brake perfectly, every time, without ever slipping up, well, you'll never have it activate anyway so it is of no hindrance.
10-22-2008, 01:00 PM
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Re: Why remove ABS? (George Knighton)
Well put George.
Some abs systems could disrupt the car too much making it difficult to follow your desired line. While others are much more refined.
I think some Subaru's come with an abs off button. If I recall correctly it was mentioned in a magazine review a few years ago. I can't recall the name though.
Some abs systems could disrupt the car too much making it difficult to follow your desired line. While others are much more refined.
I think some Subaru's come with an abs off button. If I recall correctly it was mentioned in a magazine review a few years ago. I can't recall the name though.
10-24-2008, 03:57 PM
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Re: Why remove ABS? (_BEN_)
I took the ABS out of my dc2 simply b/c I drag my car. With all the hard lines, wiring harness plus abs motor and abs computer I lost about 40 pounds or so. OOO and it looks allot better to me.
10-25-2008, 05:34 AM
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Re: Why remove ABS? (TunerN00b)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TunerN00b »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And if you already know how to threshold brake perfectly, every time, without ever slipping up, well, you'll never have it activate anyway so it is of no hindrance.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm about 55 years old, and I certainly cannot brake perfectly every time. :-)
Although I do not think that we can object in theory to very experienced drivers removing modern ABS systems, my concern is that too many young and inexperienced drivers are removing their ABS systems. Just asking for trouble, it seems to me.
I also think that too many old fashioned classroom instructors are too fond of citing their personal experiences with ABS systems despite the fact that the experience is 20 years ago. On a modern car with modern ABS, it's going to be very good and really rather close to theoretical theshold braking in many cases.
People should really give it a try before they think they absolutely have to remove it.
I'd also like to take a second to point out that the majority of H1 and H2 drivers who are using the DC2 ITR as their foundation have kept the ABS systems on their cars.
I hate to say it, but if I were getting into the right seat with somebody in Group One or Group Two, and I found out they'd removed their ABS, I'd look over the rest of the car rather carefully.
And if you already know how to threshold brake perfectly, every time, without ever slipping up, well, you'll never have it activate anyway so it is of no hindrance.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm about 55 years old, and I certainly cannot brake perfectly every time. :-)
Although I do not think that we can object in theory to very experienced drivers removing modern ABS systems, my concern is that too many young and inexperienced drivers are removing their ABS systems. Just asking for trouble, it seems to me.
I also think that too many old fashioned classroom instructors are too fond of citing their personal experiences with ABS systems despite the fact that the experience is 20 years ago. On a modern car with modern ABS, it's going to be very good and really rather close to theoretical theshold braking in many cases.
People should really give it a try before they think they absolutely have to remove it.
I'd also like to take a second to point out that the majority of H1 and H2 drivers who are using the DC2 ITR as their foundation have kept the ABS systems on their cars.
I hate to say it, but if I were getting into the right seat with somebody in Group One or Group Two, and I found out they'd removed their ABS, I'd look over the rest of the car rather carefully.
11-01-2008, 05:04 PM
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Re: Why remove ABS? (George Knighton)
If a purpose built track super car like the viper ACR now comes standard with ABS then it certainly has its perks. Keep this in mind, the new ZR1 has yaw sensors and accelerometers to not only provide stability control, but also electronically control the dampening rate of the shocks with electromagnets on the fly. If the car allows you to shut this system off, along with stability control and traction control but NOT ABS then how useful do you think ABS is to the cars performance?
AVERAGE passenger car ABS systems can kick an individual brake on 15 times a second, and sorry to say to weekend track warriors but no human can come close to this. ABS stops the tires from skidding, Skidding=less stopping distance, period.
So if ABS stops wheels from skidding faster and more efficiently than a human, and skidding=shorter stopping distant, then ABS>no ABS. I think George hit the nail on the head, most of the people who spout that they stop faster without ABS are usually guys who around back in the 70's when the system was first introduced and you actually could outperform it.
AVERAGE passenger car ABS systems can kick an individual brake on 15 times a second, and sorry to say to weekend track warriors but no human can come close to this. ABS stops the tires from skidding, Skidding=less stopping distance, period.
So if ABS stops wheels from skidding faster and more efficiently than a human, and skidding=shorter stopping distant, then ABS>no ABS. I think George hit the nail on the head, most of the people who spout that they stop faster without ABS are usually guys who around back in the 70's when the system was first introduced and you actually could outperform it.
11-02-2008, 08:56 AM
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Re: Why remove ABS? (Kiwibird83)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kiwibird83 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If a purpose built track super car like the viper ACR now comes standard with ABS then it certainly has its perks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think all cars made after a certain year are required to have abs*. Just like all cars are now required to have seatbelts and airbags.
So Dodge did not have a choice on weather or not to equip the acr with abs. They were required to have it to make it street legal.
*Im pretty sure that is correct (for the U.S. market) if I'm wrong correct me.
I think all cars made after a certain year are required to have abs*. Just like all cars are now required to have seatbelts and airbags.
So Dodge did not have a choice on weather or not to equip the acr with abs. They were required to have it to make it street legal.
*Im pretty sure that is correct (for the U.S. market) if I'm wrong correct me.
11-02-2008, 10:11 AM
#16
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Re: Why remove ABS? (Kiwibird83)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kiwibird83 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If a purpose built track super car like the viper ACR now comes standard with ABS then it certainly has its perks. Keep this in mind, the new ZR1 has yaw sensors and accelerometers to not only provide stability control, but also electronically control the dampening rate of the shocks with electromagnets on the fly. If the car allows you to shut this system off, along with stability control and traction control but NOT ABS then how useful do you think ABS is to the cars performance?
AVERAGE passenger car ABS systems can kick an individual brake on 15 times a second, and sorry to say to weekend track warriors but no human can come close to this. ABS stops the tires from skidding, Skidding=less stopping distance, period.
So if ABS stops wheels from skidding faster and more efficiently than a human, and skidding=shorter stopping distant, then ABS>no ABS. I think George hit the nail on the head, most of the people who spout that they stop faster without ABS are usually guys who around back in the 70's when the system was first introduced and you actually could outperform it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
please tell me i've read this wrong?
all corvettes come with ABS as standard equipment. this is one car i have raced many miles in the different generations. it also would be a complete nightmare without abs. those yaw sensors are connected to the abs computer and help stabilize the car when you are driving crazy. if you ever have the chance, drive a 2001 or newer corvette and try & jump the gas & pop the back end out when it's in competition mode. you'll feel the ABS pulse the slipping wheel .
also, here's your viper ACR
http://www.rsportscars.com/dod...0-acr/
as you can tell it also comes WITH abs. seriously do your homework before you try and mislead people with your nonsense.
AVERAGE passenger car ABS systems can kick an individual brake on 15 times a second, and sorry to say to weekend track warriors but no human can come close to this. ABS stops the tires from skidding, Skidding=less stopping distance, period.
So if ABS stops wheels from skidding faster and more efficiently than a human, and skidding=shorter stopping distant, then ABS>no ABS. I think George hit the nail on the head, most of the people who spout that they stop faster without ABS are usually guys who around back in the 70's when the system was first introduced and you actually could outperform it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
please tell me i've read this wrong?
all corvettes come with ABS as standard equipment. this is one car i have raced many miles in the different generations. it also would be a complete nightmare without abs. those yaw sensors are connected to the abs computer and help stabilize the car when you are driving crazy. if you ever have the chance, drive a 2001 or newer corvette and try & jump the gas & pop the back end out when it's in competition mode. you'll feel the ABS pulse the slipping wheel .
also, here's your viper ACR
http://www.rsportscars.com/dod...0-acr/
as you can tell it also comes WITH abs. seriously do your homework before you try and mislead people with your nonsense.
11-03-2008, 01:59 PM
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Re: Why remove ABS? (Kiwibird83)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kiwibird83 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If a purpose built track super car like the viper ACR now comes standard with ABS then it certainly has its perks. Keep this in mind, the new ZR1 has yaw sensors and accelerometers to not only provide stability control, but also electronically control the dampening rate of the shocks with electromagnets on the fly. If the car allows you to shut this system off, along with stability control and traction control but NOT ABS then how useful do you think ABS is to the cars performance?
AVERAGE passenger car ABS systems can kick an individual brake on 15 times a second, and sorry to say to weekend track warriors but no human can come close to this. ABS stops the tires from skidding, Skidding=less stopping distance, period.
So if ABS stops wheels from skidding faster and more efficiently than a human, and skidding=shorter stopping distant, then ABS>no ABS. I think George hit the nail on the head, most of the people who spout that they stop faster without ABS are usually guys who around back in the 70's when the system was first introduced and you actually could outperform it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wouldn't one want a shorter stopping distance?
AVERAGE passenger car ABS systems can kick an individual brake on 15 times a second, and sorry to say to weekend track warriors but no human can come close to this. ABS stops the tires from skidding, Skidding=less stopping distance, period.
So if ABS stops wheels from skidding faster and more efficiently than a human, and skidding=shorter stopping distant, then ABS>no ABS. I think George hit the nail on the head, most of the people who spout that they stop faster without ABS are usually guys who around back in the 70's when the system was first introduced and you actually could outperform it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wouldn't one want a shorter stopping distance?
11-04-2008, 10:07 AM
#18
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Re: Why remove ABS? (FijiBlueFG2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FijiBlueFG2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Wouldn't one want a shorter stopping distance?</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes, both of the cars he said don not have ABS actually DO
Wouldn't one want a shorter stopping distance?</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes, both of the cars he said don not have ABS actually DO
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