Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
#1
Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
I cannot seem to get rid of this problem, I've been to numerous tire shops and taken it to two different auto repair shops. Everyone has different suggestions (and a laundry list of things to replace) but nobody has a definitive diagnosis or solution for me. I am posting here in the hopes someone can help. I am on a tight budget, I need to figure out what is wrong so I can do the work myself. my car is worth maybe $1200 so I don't want to spend more than its worth in repairs....
I have a 1990 Civic Hatchback Dx. 158,000 miles. This problem started last summer. Since then, I've burned through 3 sets of tires. One set was brand new, after 5,000 miles they have pretty decent cupping already.
I believe the problem is coming from the front passenger side. That tire seems to cup the worst and fastest. Over time, the terrible vibrations I experiece seem to be on and off, at differnent speeds, and different strengths. Just depends on how bad my current tires have gotten, what kind of road I am on, or what thing I have replaced most recently to get rid of the issue.
So far, I've replaced:
shocks on all four corners
front lower and upper control arm bushings
brake pads and rotors all four wheels
had alignment done twice
replaced tires three times (different brands and tyes of tires...)
I've tried three different sets of wheels. Two OEM style, and 15" alloys
my oem wheels were checked on a tire balancer and have no bends
I've had a mechanical look over and tell me the following are fine:
ball joints
tie rod ends
cv boots
So, what else can this be?
Bent axle?
Bad Bearings (I might have had this checked and a mechanic said it was ok)
bent drive shaft?
Something else?
Currently the vibrations are worst between 40-55mph. After 55 you can feel them, only less drastic. But you can see your hand shaking on the steering wheel.
How can I check myself to see what the problem might be. Every shop just blames it on the tires and alignment. Obviously those are shot due to the real problem.
Thank you!
I have a 1990 Civic Hatchback Dx. 158,000 miles. This problem started last summer. Since then, I've burned through 3 sets of tires. One set was brand new, after 5,000 miles they have pretty decent cupping already.
I believe the problem is coming from the front passenger side. That tire seems to cup the worst and fastest. Over time, the terrible vibrations I experiece seem to be on and off, at differnent speeds, and different strengths. Just depends on how bad my current tires have gotten, what kind of road I am on, or what thing I have replaced most recently to get rid of the issue.
So far, I've replaced:
shocks on all four corners
front lower and upper control arm bushings
brake pads and rotors all four wheels
had alignment done twice
replaced tires three times (different brands and tyes of tires...)
I've tried three different sets of wheels. Two OEM style, and 15" alloys
my oem wheels were checked on a tire balancer and have no bends
I've had a mechanical look over and tell me the following are fine:
ball joints
tie rod ends
cv boots
So, what else can this be?
Bent axle?
Bad Bearings (I might have had this checked and a mechanic said it was ok)
bent drive shaft?
Something else?
Currently the vibrations are worst between 40-55mph. After 55 you can feel them, only less drastic. But you can see your hand shaking on the steering wheel.
How can I check myself to see what the problem might be. Every shop just blames it on the tires and alignment. Obviously those are shot due to the real problem.
Thank you!
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
wheel bearings, 22yr old car might as well change them. You should go buy the lifetime alignment from firestone, who cares how much it cost in your case.
#3
Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
If it was my car I'd go ahead and replace all of the bushings,wheel bearings, etc. they are quite old.
I'd also go through and inspect individual components for damage/breakage and try a different mechanic perhaps? Has the car ever been wrecked
I'd also go through and inspect individual components for damage/breakage and try a different mechanic perhaps? Has the car ever been wrecked
#5
Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
I would but I was quoted like $1200 to do new bearings... are they hard to do? I have a shop press.
#6
Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
do you think I need new bearings, new hubs, or both? I don't really understand the difference. Does the bearing sit inside the hub?
would it be an easier replacement if I replaced the whole hub? (would the bearing come pressed in, thereby eliminating the need to take out the old bearings and put in the new? This would be nice)
Thanks
would it be an easier replacement if I replaced the whole hub? (would the bearing come pressed in, thereby eliminating the need to take out the old bearings and put in the new? This would be nice)
Thanks
#7
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Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
$1200 to replace wheel bearings?
The first thing I would do is grab a Helms manual or something equivalent.
Second: Don't ever go back to that mechanic.
Third: Do them yourself. You said you have a press.
A few hours, some basic tools, and a 6pk of your favorite brew should get it done for you.
The first thing I would do is grab a Helms manual or something equivalent.
Second: Don't ever go back to that mechanic.
Third: Do them yourself. You said you have a press.
A few hours, some basic tools, and a 6pk of your favorite brew should get it done for you.
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Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
so the fronts are cupping?
assuming the tech checked the tie rods and wheel bearings for play before the alignment. check rack bushings. you mentioned lower control arm bushings but what about the tension rod's bushings?
if it moves, spins, twists or compresses.. check it.
assuming the tech checked the tie rods and wheel bearings for play before the alignment. check rack bushings. you mentioned lower control arm bushings but what about the tension rod's bushings?
if it moves, spins, twists or compresses.. check it.
#9
Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
$1200 to replace wheel bearings?
The first thing I would do is grab a Helms manual or something equivalent.
Second: Don't ever go back to that mechanic.
Third: Do them yourself. You said you have a press.
A few hours, some basic tools, and a 6pk of your favorite brew should get it done for you.
The first thing I would do is grab a Helms manual or something equivalent.
Second: Don't ever go back to that mechanic.
Third: Do them yourself. You said you have a press.
A few hours, some basic tools, and a 6pk of your favorite brew should get it done for you.
Anyway, do you think I should replace the bearings, or hubs, or both?
#10
Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
so the fronts are cupping?
assuming the tech checked the tie rods and wheel bearings for play before the alignment. check rack bushings. you mentioned lower control arm bushings but what about the tension rod's bushings?
if it moves, spins, twists or compresses.. check it.
assuming the tech checked the tie rods and wheel bearings for play before the alignment. check rack bushings. you mentioned lower control arm bushings but what about the tension rod's bushings?
if it moves, spins, twists or compresses.. check it.
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Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
like i said, just get under there and follow every single arm/member/link/everything to it's point of motion. something is likely worn out.
the wheel bearings are easily checked with the wheel off the ground. as are the tie rods. everything else will be more easily checked with some of the car's weight supoorted by the wheel.
any chance you looked over the alignment before/after last time you had it done?
#12
MM Gruppe B
Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
bluebruin The hub is #4 and the wheel bearing is #1.
How are the tires cupping?
Usually the indication of a bad wheel bearing is the the even scalloping of the inside tread. It can be hard to see at times, but it will be even usually every other tread block will be scalloped evenly.
How are the tires cupping?
Usually the indication of a bad wheel bearing is the the even scalloping of the inside tread. It can be hard to see at times, but it will be even usually every other tread block will be scalloped evenly.
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Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
Was this car in an accident last summer? I'm hard pressed to think that a bad wheel bearing would last a whole year without giving out.
Jack up car. Grab the tire at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock positions. Testing for a bad wheel bearing varies on different cars. Some cars testing at 4/8 checks for play in the inner/outer tie rods and that play could be misjudged(although, if the bearing is bad enough it will wobble as if the lugnuts are loose no matter what direction you pull). The 12/6 o'clock position(on certain vehicles) is used to test bearing play/busted ball joints. As has been mentioned before there will be a loud(depending on how bad the bearing is) grinding/metal to metal noise when driving on bad bearings. My trick would be to go in an empty parking lot and going about 15-20mph turn the wheel left/right to put the weight of the car on the bearing to hear which specific bearing it is.
Last edited by grumblemarc; 06-22-2012 at 06:59 AM.
#14
Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
after doing some more reading on this site, I found someone who had a similar problem. They had a bent hub. I recall that I also hit a curb pretty hard a few months before all this started. I had my wheel checked, but it was not bent. Same thing happened to the other guy, and his wheel was not bent also, but his hub turned out to be. So, I want to replace my front hubs.
Problem is, I cannot find anywhere to buy them. All of the sites seem to have rear hub assemblies only. Anyway have a good source? Thanks
Problem is, I cannot find anywhere to buy them. All of the sites seem to have rear hub assemblies only. Anyway have a good source? Thanks
#15
Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
I found these:
Do you think they are really a whole hub assembly, or just a bearing as the picture shows? They are pretty expensive.
http://www.amazon.com/***-FW924-Fron...1990&carId=001
How about these, they don't specifically say front or rear, do you think they are supposed to work for either, is that even possible?
http://www.amazon.com/DTA-Premium-NT...1990&carId=001
update: went here, they are for rear only!
http://www.showmetheparts.com/drivetech/
Do you think they are really a whole hub assembly, or just a bearing as the picture shows? They are pretty expensive.
http://www.amazon.com/***-FW924-Fron...1990&carId=001
How about these, they don't specifically say front or rear, do you think they are supposed to work for either, is that even possible?
http://www.amazon.com/DTA-Premium-NT...1990&carId=001
update: went here, they are for rear only!
http://www.showmetheparts.com/drivetech/
#16
Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
I am looking at used hubs. Does anybody know if the hubs on my 1990 Hatchback are the same as the regular civic sedans of the same model/year?
This would widen my search a lot. Furthermore, if anybody here has some for sale, please PM me! Thanks!
This would widen my search a lot. Furthermore, if anybody here has some for sale, please PM me! Thanks!
#17
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Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
90 dx should cross with any civic/crx. as long as it's not a HF, EX, and not sure but i think some base model (4spd models) came with a different type of hub. also not sure if 88 will work.
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Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
used hubs? good luck playing with that outside hub bearing race.
#19
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
A bent hub is easy to spot on an alignment machine. The SAI and IA will easily point to a bent suspension or frame issue. All you need is a competent alignment shop/tech. If your car is manual you should also check the intermediate shaft bearing as well as the axels for vibration issues. (Note: the axles need to be removed to check them for play)
#20
Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
the vibrations have gotten worse. in fact, someone stopped me because they could actually see my rear tire wobbling. I put it up on jacks and took off the parking break, sure enough, the rear passenger side tire wobbles bad.
The tires only have a few hundred miles on them, the wheels have been checked for being out of balance. So, it must be something else. I yanked on the top of the wheel, pulling it towards my chest while sitting in front of the lug nuts. There is no play. This is how you check for bearings, right? So, what could be causing this wobble?
The tires only have a few hundred miles on them, the wheels have been checked for being out of balance. So, it must be something else. I yanked on the top of the wheel, pulling it towards my chest while sitting in front of the lug nuts. There is no play. This is how you check for bearings, right? So, what could be causing this wobble?
#22
Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
the saga continues... turns out the rim is bent. But just that "new" set of wheels and tires I bought for summer and put on there. I tested two other sets of wheels and tires that I have on that same corner of the car. None wobble. So, my latest problem with the wobble is only this set of tires/wheels.
But, the original problem is still there presumably. I end up with cupping and bad vibrations on every set of tires. Tires and wheels are balanced, car has been aligned. I have replaced all shocks, I replaced all bushings on upper and lower control arms in front.
Here is a photo of my winter set of tires. See the bad cupping!? This is after 5,000 miles and the tires were brand new. The wheels they are mounted on were checked by discount tire on the balance machine to make sure they were not bent.
But, the original problem is still there presumably. I end up with cupping and bad vibrations on every set of tires. Tires and wheels are balanced, car has been aligned. I have replaced all shocks, I replaced all bushings on upper and lower control arms in front.
Here is a photo of my winter set of tires. See the bad cupping!? This is after 5,000 miles and the tires were brand new. The wheels they are mounted on were checked by discount tire on the balance machine to make sure they were not bent.
#23
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Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
something i tryed when i had similar problems, to eliminate the wheels as problem cause.
put the car on jackstands( under the front lca, fwd car)
remove the wheels
start up
put in gear and speed up to problemspeed.
you have to be careful though, make sure the car is stabile on the jacks or it could go bad, lol
(in my case it was a unbalanced wheel.)
also check your tirepressure, sometimes its the simplest things.
put the car on jackstands( under the front lca, fwd car)
remove the wheels
start up
put in gear and speed up to problemspeed.
you have to be careful though, make sure the car is stabile on the jacks or it could go bad, lol
(in my case it was a unbalanced wheel.)
also check your tirepressure, sometimes its the simplest things.
#24
MM Gruppe B
Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
I don't see bad cupping. What I see is over-inflation.
This would also account for the vibrations you are feeling, if the tire is overinflated you will feel every nook, cranny, and ant that you run over.
When the center of the tire wears only, over inflation.
When the outside tread blocks wear only, under inflation.
Cupping is an uneven scalloping of the inside or outside tread blocks.
Which is usually attributed to a suspension damper issue.
This would also account for the vibrations you are feeling, if the tire is overinflated you will feel every nook, cranny, and ant that you run over.
When the center of the tire wears only, over inflation.
When the outside tread blocks wear only, under inflation.
Cupping is an uneven scalloping of the inside or outside tread blocks.
Which is usually attributed to a suspension damper issue.
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Re: Vibrations & Tire Cupping - Please help!
my 90 lx sedan is actually cupping really bad.... im going to try to replace my front wheel bearing on wed.....fun times.... vibrating really bad at 55+ mph... and the weird thing is when I get to 70... the vibration comes and goes.....even if I hold it at 70.....balanced several times.....different sets of tires.....new junk2 dampers... bla bla bla... did everything but change out the bearings....and my car is uber slammed too. lol