GoonieAsian

I have been driving a 97 civic hatch for a couple of years now running on PIC Street coilovers, with a set of fat five gsr rims, that are wrapped in 205/55-15. I am not lowered aggressively just enough that i dont rub. So I drove one of my friend's '07 Lotus Exige and now i am in love with the way it handles. My questions what can i do to make my civic handle better? I mean, I want to point the car and want it to go that direction without any kind of little sway and bob. I just really want to tighten up everything.

98civdx

Higher spring rates,sway bars are two things.
Inner and outer tie rods, upper and lower ball joints and bushings are things people over look sometimes and can help.

neverstop

i'm sure if you just refreshed your setup, maybe a little weight reduction, you could get close, not going to change direction like a lotus though since lotus is mid engine and rwd. civic's can handle amazing but nothing like a lotus....

phunhaus

Change your Civic to a MR setup by moving the engine to the rear seat/hatch area.

Ponyboy

What are you running for a LSD?

You can get your hatchie to handle well but it won't have the same handling characteristics as a MR car (as previously noted). So you may want to set your expectation level a bit lower.

Really, you'll have to list out the entirety of your setup to let the community help you. Tires, camber, sways, LSD, ride height, dampers, aero, etc.

racebum

replace all your bushings, tie rods and ball joints. no clue what bars you have but anything decent for sways will start. now for the important part, tires. since you have those heavy skinny wheels 195 55 15 would be the size i would go for. try something like the dunlop star spec. do all of this with your coilovers....which ones are they again? apex or select? and you will be able to rail

there are limits to the car but i tested an integra with kumho xs tires on 15x7 wheels, koni sports with 500/430 rates, gsr front bar and 19mm ST rear bar, full energy suspension bushings and only 70deg outside temps with no heat in the tires. that combo peaks around 1.15G and will push past 1.20g with hot tires. it can also pull a sustained skidpad of 1.01g with cold tires.

STOCK_SOHC_DX

This

GoonieAsian

I know that the lotus is a MR car and it was so fun to drive. But I kinda like when i was playing with the steering it just felt really tight and nimble. I am sure you can do that with a FWD car.

I am kinda curious how does a LSD make my car handle better? I know for straight line it causes both wheels to drive simultaneously. I know even it helps pull the car out of the corners.

I am planning on replacing all the bushings. currently I have PIC Apex. I have had them for a couple of years now. I was thinking of replacing them with coilovers with adjustable dampening. I was thinking of their PIC Select or maybe some tein super streets with edfc

racebum

just keep what you have. spending $1000 more will drain your wallet. the next step up would be something like the race valved konis. this is when you're going to slicks and going abover 600lb/in

the apex is fine, it keeps the car flat and you can use sway bars for fine tuning

tires tires tires

get rid of those oem wheels and find a nice light 15x7 or even 15x8 if you really want to get crazy. the new hankook 3s are available in 225 45 15

very very bad *** street tire

the only thing you won't have is the nimble feeling, that's part of MR

if you're really trying to tune your car go and buy a gtech ss, it's one way you can see what kind of G's your car is actually pulling and gauge improvement

GoonieAsian

Money isn't a big deal with me. Thanks for the advice. I do have a asr sub frame brace that my brother gave me from his old ek hatch. I just need to buy a sway bar for it. I do have a set of ex front lower suspension arms and sway bar. I am not sure that would be enough to make it feel as tight as i want it. I know most of the auto-x guys don't really use the front sway bars, that is why i haven't put them on yet.

STOCK_SOHC_DX

Also is your car corner balanced?

racebum

autocross setups are different from open track setups more times than not. autocross is all about rotation since you're going under 50mph and on the brakes, then the gas over and over. open track setups are usually more neutral since you don't want the back end coming out when you brake into an apex.

if this is a street car favor the open track setup. autocross cars aren't fun in the rain. you really have to be careful

by the way, if money is no big deal go buy the lotus

finance is ALWAYS what limits how far we go with cars

98civdx

If money isnt a problem then bushings,ball joints, tie rods sway bars etc.
Replaceing the apex's isnt what some would say to do, but highier spring rates could really help alot.

Im runing 10k in front (650lb ish) and 8k in rear (400lb) With stock si 26mm front sway bar and 13mm in the rear. I like it quite a bit, but it rides like complete crap, harsh, kinda bouncy.
And girls, well they really dont like it at all. My GF hates my car, i have to beg her to ride in it.

racebum

depends on the track. on the street higher rates are likely to slow the car down due to the decrease in traction you wind up with since the tire isn't tracking the road nearly as well on uneven surfaces.

if you're on slicks and a smooth track the faster transitions higher rates provide start bringing lap times down. higher hp cars also start to benefit from more rate since it fights the power induced body motion.

a porsche gt3 is around 285lb/in up front and 385lb/in out back

my old corvette which was on R comps used 750lb/500lb rates

in the OP's case shocks and springs are probably the last thing i would look at when setting up his car. the apex already is roll resistant, that's all shocks and springs need to do, control motion. as long as the rebound out back is enough to keep from easy corner exit oversteer there are other places to be looking in order to improve handling

just to say it again, the #1 place you can improve a cars handling is tires, bar none this is the one mod wonder when it come to improving times.

98civdx

^he's right.

JBrettHowell

What does an Exige weigh? I seem to recall them being under 2000 lbs stock.

Found it - 2077 lbs curb weight stock. I think removing weight from the Civic would be a good place to start (makes the car work better in just about every possible way).

slick1851

You can buy a Elise for 28-35k now used with low miles. There comes a point were your limited to the layout of a car. That's when inboard suspensions, and you start to go crazy stich welding the whole thing etc. Some of the fastest and best handling cars in japan time attack are fwd. Let's not forget the record holder was the ss auto works crx for awhile. Point is you start turning in the into almost a full track car at that point. There not exactly "street cars" but streetable. Honestly i'd just buy a elise and you will have what your looking for out of the box no mods. Just a monthly payment, they call it thr ae86 of europe.

1.5Slowmatic

im running 15x7+38 wheels Kosei k1TS about 11lbs a wheel with potenza RE-11's and 300/275 rates with a stock EX front sway and an EM1 rear sway. Its great. The car is heavy(2000 EX sedan) but it does what i want it to 95% of the time. It's my DD hence the softer rates. If it wasn't i'd be at 500/450 probably. Get the tires though. Was by far my best mod ever to the car. All my bushings were replaced as well and all my tie rods and such were still good since the car was low miles. The body roll is minor and i have no strut tower bars or anything like that. But you need to get a rear sway. makes a big difference. something like a 17mm Eibach or 19mm USDM ITR bar would be good.

Drive 4 fun

Over a few years, I went through HPDE with standard street tires, then Azenis, and now R888's, and there are certainly better and more dedicated R tires. I think that the Lotus that I was in had AO48 tires, some would say comparable to R888, and others say a ways below. I did suspension and brakes, in stages, and all made a difference, but, the single most notable, as stated by others, tires. It is difficult to get the total balance of power, brakes, suspension, and weight of the Lotus.

98civdx

Im with idrivesideways, just buy the dang lotus

GoonieAsian

I would buy a lotus but i am not really looking for another monthly payment. I am gonna install the front swaybars and figure out which rear swaybar i should pick up. has anyone have any experience with a ST rear swaybar?

98civdx

no experience with there sway bars.

i have civic si sway bars front and rear in my car, deffinetly one of the best things ive done to it.
I may be upgrading to the ctr 22mm rear bar soon though.

hondr

this is a paste from the link im about to post.

The only EK Civics that came with rear sway bars are the Civic Type R and the Civic Si, although all EK Civics have the same LCAs and thusly all accept a rear sway. The Si sway bar endlinks need to be used in conjunction with any factory and most aftermarket sway bars. To make it easy, even the DC2 Integra sway bars will require the Si endlinks, available at any Honda dealer.

http://www.ek9.org/forum/suspension/...formation.html


your car doesnt have a rear sway bar, hence it handling subpar. get some good sway bars and the car will corner 10X better.



EDIT: 100X better

98civdx

^ thats true, but you dont truly need oem endlinks aftermarket ones fit also.
im runing the blox adjustables front/rear with no problems.

racebum

i used one just because i had it. a gsr front bar and ST 19mm rear bar is a good combo with 500/450 rates, with stock apex rates i would either use less front bar or the jdm itr rear bar