NXSpoon

Calling out those who track there cars for points #2 and #3.

My future build is a DC2 / K20R with 5 lug ITR suspension. Plans call for dual use: track and street, NOT DD.

1) I'd like to use TL Type S Brembos (staying OEM), which I hear are similar if not identical to DC5 Brembos. Regardless, I need to know the distance from c-c of the mounting holes on the TL-S Brembos to see if they match the DC2R knuckle attachment points.

2) I am pretty sure I'll be running Koni Race shocks and GC coils, >500lb spring rates. I've seen setups with higher springs rates in the front, and then those higher in the rear. I understand that the higher in the rear rate can lead to a more livelier back end, but is that the only reason? How would that translate on the street? A typical Honda/Acura has ~200 front and ~120 rear; I am assuming that is to ensure a safe understeer condition. Correct?

3) Regarding upper control arms for camber adjustment. I am looking for those that provide the best clearance between the top of the ball joint and the shock tower; is the Skunk2 Pro Plus the best in this case? The car will be lowered but just to a point where I can get a finger and a half to 2 fingers between top of tire and fender lip. Sensible lowering I call it.

I am planning to start again with some autoX and then get my SCCA license to move onto track time trials, HPDE, casual track days with groups and eventually wheel to wheel racing, at which point she will leave the street for good. I'd like to keep the shock/spring setup as simple as possible and the Koni/GC have been a standard for decades. No reason to mess with success IMO.

Thanks,
Ken

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

1: They are not Brembos, they are made by a company that starts with an A, I forgot. No, they don't bolt up to OEM brackets.

Edit: (The brakes on the TL/RL are manufactured by Advics Co. Ltd., a subsidiary of Sumitomo Electric Automotive, that designs and manufactures brake systems and components. They have operations in the U.S., Japan, Thailand, Indonesia and China.)

2: Yes, a higher spring rate in the rear will dial out understeer and creating a rotating effect making the car faster around turns.

3: If your goal is to be lowered that far, then you should look into drop forks, they will keep the control arm off the shock tower.

Other thoughts: Have you looked into spherical bearings? For a race car you will want to start replacing soft rubber bushings with spherical parts for ultimate control.

Calif_Kid

Good info especially on the brakes!! There is a typo and you meant to write that a higher spring rate in the rear will dial out understeer instead of oversteer.

For the OP - to get the car balanced in handling, you'll need to figure out the front and rear spring rates, but also what sway bars to run front and rear. You might end up with an adjustable rear sway bar that you can use to fine tune the handling balance, but the spring rates will probably have the biggest effect. On my race car (2000 Civic hatch setup for HC2 weighing around 2300lbs without driver, full roll cage), I ended up with 750F and 1000R spring rates, with an OEM 22mm front sway (non adjustable) and 24mm adjustable ASR rear sway bars. I tried a few different spring rates before finding that the 750F/1000R rates gave pretty balanced handling, and I then played around with the front and rear sway bars - I initially had 24mm front and 22mm rear sway bars, but decreased the front to 22mm and upped the rear to 24mm. Some racers use the 32mm hollow rear ASR sway bar, with the wall thickness (0.095" is the thinnest) being used to adjust the rate. Some racers run without any front sway bar while some (including me) run front and rear sway bars.

Bottom line, is that you'll probably end up with some suspension setup (spring rates and sway bars) while the car is used on the street plus track, but then change it if the car is only used on the track especially for wheel to wheel racing. - Jim

2LEM1

iTrader: (1)

Good catch, thank you! This is exactly what I meant.

Good advice as well

NXSpoon

Thank you both! Regarding the calipers, I know that Advics makes the RL calipers, but everywhere I have looked (and I've spent hours if not days researching all aspecs of this build), say that the TL-S was equipped with Brembo front calipers, similar to the DC5R. Regardless of brand, I'd still like to have that information regarding mounting bracket dimensions if anyone has measurements. I'd like the increased heat tolerance afforded by larger rotors once I do finish this build and take her out to the speedway.

I was planning on starting with the standard 24mm front and 22mm rear sway bars and seeing what that feels like initially. I can always change them and experiment.

Is that too low? I ran that height on my EM1, which was purely street driven, and never bottomed out. I know that with a K engine, I will need to take care, but isn't lower better on a track? I actually did find a set of drop forks last night, although now I can't remember where lol.

In your opinions, is 500/500 a decent place to start? Not too hard for the street, right? This won't be my daily, merely a "blow off steam" / track car.

DJackson1357

Center to center SHOULD be around 5 9/16. Note that this is based on the standard 7th gen accord caliper, but based on research the bolt pattern is the same. However the Brembos use a larger bolt so you'd have to drill out the knuckle.

NXSpoon

So 5 & 9/16 inches center to center, I'll check it out. Thanks! Could you point me towards the research or data you used to find out that measurement? And yes, I am aware that I'll have to enlarge the mounting holes on the knuckle.

DJackson1357

From what I was able to find the mounting distance is the same between the Accords / Auto TL and the 6 Speed / Type S TL. This is based on the notes in the following thread at type s tl brembo calipers - Honda Accord Forum : V6 Performance Accord Forums.

I had a set of Accord calipers in the back of my truck from a recent brake job, so I measured the mounting distance on those.