AW

I still have some mileage left on my current set of 205/50/15 RA1's but am looking to get a new set when they go. Anyone tried the R888 ones yet? They seem to be priced about the same and are the latest version

GI8U2racing

From what I gather the R888's are better grip than the RA1's. A stack of 4 888's is 2-3" taller than a stack of 4 RA1's, both in the 205/50/15 size. Also, the R888's are said to give a more progressive break-away than the RA1's. Then the Nitto NT01's are comparable to the RA1's, but much cheaper. The R888's will most likely replace the RA1's in NASA club racing shortly also apparently.

davidnyc

I will be on the R888's this week and my first drive on them will be first weekend in May. Send me a PM after that.

luder94-ChrisA

iTrader: (1)

Where are people buying their R888's? Are they more expensive than the RA-1? Do they need to be shaved?

Lo-Buck EF

phil can get them (philstireservice.com) and yep. there fast. i stuck my nail in a pair today and they are softer than my old ra-1s. granted, my ra-1s are 2 or 3 years old....
i would buy r888s if your gonna buy new tires.

AW

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by davidnyc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I will be on the R888's this week and my first drive on them will be first weekend in May. Send me a PM after that.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks I will definitely PM you. My RA1's look tired, I may just kill them on the street so that I can re-tire my wheels.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by luder94-ChrisA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where are people buying their R888's? Are they more expensive than the RA-1? Do they need to be shaved?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you are going to buy remember, NASA members get a $100 mail in rebate if you buy before June 16th.

GI8U2racing

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Lo-Buck EF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would buy r888s if your gonna buy new tires.</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you are an HPDE'r, and lifespan is significant to you, you may want the Nitto's or RA1's still. Also, I'm worried about clearance in the rear with 225's, because they are definitely wider.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AW &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you are going to buy remember, NASA members get a $100 mail in rebate if you buy before June 16th.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Through who? If I buy from Phil's Tire Service, would that count?

AW

If you are a nasa member you would have got an email that says there is a rebate on 4 r888 or 4 r1r's, Not sure if you need to be a member or not to get it.

GI8U2racing

I remember the email now, OK. I think I'm doing the NT-01's anyway, the price is hard to beat, they are 6/32's tread to start with, so they don't require shaving to prevent chunking like the RA1's do. 225/45/15's are $137 each from Discount Tire Direct vs. $161 for shaved RA1's from Phil

MightyMouseTech

I am pretty sure the R888's have the same compound as the RA1's.

You can find RA1's at really good discounts if you look around.

Vitt1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AW &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you are a nasa member you would have got an email that says there is a rebate on 4 r888 or 4 r1r's, Not sure if you need to be a member or not to get it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Does the email have an attached "rebate form" that you print out to fill out and send for the rebate? Or where do you get the rebate form. Thanks.

nsxtasy

Where to buy? See:

where do you buy your toyos?

If you use your RA-1 with full tread (rather than shaving them), you may find that they last longer than the R888. The RA-1 comes new with 8/32" of tread depth, the R888 with 6/32".

TPB

Are there any reviews regarding how the two tires stack up in wet conditions i.e. rain and standing water?

nsxtasy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TPB &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are there any reviews regarding how the two tires stack up in wet conditions i.e. rain and standing water?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I haven't seen any reviews, but between the greater tread depth and the diagonal tread grooves, I gotta believe that a full-tread RA-1 will do better in rain and standing water than a full-tread R888. Once they're both worn, though, they're both going to suck.

Rtype16

The RA-1 and the R888 are the same compund.

The difference between the two is the sidewall construction of the tire. The R888 haveing a stiffer sidewall than the RA-1 I can get into it a little deeper, but that is the low down on the tire also the R888 starts with a lower tread depth and the more aggresive tread to prevent tire chunking. If you can run the R888 in your race run them if not run a shaved RA-1.

Just another little piece of advice in testing with a shaved RA-1 compared to a R888 usually saw gains of 1-2 sec a lap on the R888.

MightyMouseTech

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rtype16 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The RA-1 and the R888 are the same compund.

The difference between the two is the sidewall construction of the tire. The R888 haveing a stiffer sidewall than the RA-1 I can get into it a little deeper, but that is the low down on the tire also the R888 starts with a lower tread depth and the more aggresive tread to prevent tire chunking. If you can run the R888 in your race run them if not run a shaved RA-1.

Just another little piece of advice in testing with a shaved RA-1 compared to a R888 usually saw gains of 1-2 sec a lap on the R888.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the real world info.

BRN12345

One thing i noticed about the R888 is that they like much more camber than other R compounds (the ones i have used at least). I had to go from 2.5 deg to 3 deg and the temps and wear pattern still suggest that they need more camber.

descartesfool

You will find some very good info here, including time comparisons and driver impressions:

http://www.grindstonemotorspor...n.pdf

If you push hard to the limit of the tire's grip, there is no way you can run RA-1's unshaved, as they will overheat due to tread blocks moving around and squirm and slide all over the place. That will seriously limit your speed until they wear down, which is not great of fun f you like going fast. I gave up on them and now run Hoosiers or Sport Cups. R888's might be better in that respect if unshaved, but I have not tried them.

And if you want to go fast, get a tire temp gauge and record your temps every session so you monitor progress and can optimize your setup in terms of handling balance, camber and pressures. Just checking pressures tells you very little until you have the camber and other things optimally set up. You could have the "right" hot pressures and have your tires totally under or overheating on the edges or in the middle and not know it if you just measure pressures. Even wear is also a good indicator of a good setup, but that takes time and you can ruin a set of tires if you wait to long to check wear. Also tires that are overheating in one area will wear much faster and you would not know it is happening if you only monitor pressures. Michelin put out a document for professional racing clearly stating that tire pressure should be the last thing used to tune a car's handling, and then again it should be used for fine balance adjustments only. This of course assumes you are in the right ballpark for hot pressures to start with. The presentation linked above has a nice tire temp recording sheet that one can use.

JamesS

Good stuff fool

Could you explain what is being shown in slide 44. Is that showing what you describe as "overheat due to tread blocks moving around"?

Thanks.

descartesfool

I can only suppose that the guy driving on those full tread RA-1's forgot to check his tire temps in 3 places to let him know his camber was a little wanting. Nasty chunking for sure. I guess checking for wear is better done sooner rather than later.

The advantage/disadvantage of RA-1's is that if treated properly they can end up seeming to almost last forever, even though they are way beyond providing any kind of real grip, but you can still drive on them, provided you mind the slip. I have no plans to buy any more myself, but if you want a decent cheap tire, they fit the bill, as long as you either shave them or drive slow until they wear down. Sport Cups are about 1.5 to 2 seconds faster per lap than RA-1's for me and don't need shaving, but you need proper camber or the edges will wear through. I've always thought that by far the cheapest mod you can make to a car in terms of lap times is to buy faster tires. If you run though 8 tires in a season and the extra cost for the tires is $250 per year for the faster ones, that is not much compared to all the other mods you can try which won't make you that much faster. Hoosiers are slightly faster than Sport Cups, but the Sport Cups last a whole lot longer. Like the boss from Frisbyracetire told me, the Sport Cups are a much more "sophisticated tire" than the RA-1's. Sophistication costs! I would happily try a set of the R888's to see how they go, but they are not that much cheaper than Sport Cups, as all tires have gone up a ton this year. Now in terms of alternates to Toyo's:

Some prices for 205/50/15's
R1's: $189
R6's: $203
Sport Cups: $218
V710's: $184
048's: $199

So $34 a tire between the highest and the lowest.

Some prices for 225/50/15's
R1's: $198
R6's: $210
Sport Cups: $214
V710's: $183
048's: $206

Prices tighten up in bigger sizes since there is only $16 difference between highest and the lowest if you excude the V710's, with the overall difference being $31. Sport Cups used to command a big premium, but not so anymore.

AW

Aren't RA'1s and R888's less than 150 a tire. For the hpde driver these are great deals as they will last long. You definitley will not have the fastest tire but you will have tires better than street high performance tires...

descartesfool

Toyos and Nittos are much cheaper in the smallest sizes and they are thus a good deal, but I would go with the newer models like the R888 for a few more bucks. However they are not much cheaper in larger sizes when you go to 16" or larger wheels. I have found prices at onlinetires.com and racetire.com a while back as:

205/50/15
Nitto 01: $120
RA-1: $119
R888: $137

when you start to go to bigger sizes than 15's
Some prices for 245/45/16's
R1's: $211
R6's: $226
Sport Cups: $234
V710's: NA
048's: NA
Nitto 01: NA
RA-1: $185
R888: $212

So Sport Cups are only $22 more than the R888. RA-1 is still the cheapest, but if you add shaving to the RA-1, they are at $200 so only $34 less than the most expensive.

Plus onlinetires just sent me some Sport Cups with free shipping, making the total cost for four look even better. Tirerack charges at least $15 each for shipping to my location, making the Sport Cups for me a no brainer, plus onlinetires actually sells them cheaper than the prices I listed which are from Tirerack. I have bought tires from trackside support guys, online race shops and online tire retailers, and have never found anyone of them to offer any benefits to me other than price. I buy a ton of tires, so I shop around.

AW

Great tip onlinetire.com. I think I may go for those with a shipped price of just over 800 delivered!

nsxtasy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by descartesfool &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you push hard to the limit of the tire's grip, there is no way you can run RA-1's unshaved, as they will overheat due to tread blocks moving around and squirm and slide all over the place. That will seriously limit your speed until they wear down, which is not great of fun f you like going fast.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's totally different from my experience. I use them full tread, and they don't overheat at all.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by descartesfool &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can only suppose that the guy driving on those full tread RA-1's forgot to check his tire temps in 3 places to let him know his camber was a little wanting. Nasty chunking for sure. I guess checking for wear is better done sooner rather than later.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know what his problem is, but I've never had any chunking on the RA-1.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by descartesfool &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The advantage/disadvantage of RA-1's is that if treated properly they can end up seeming to almost last forever, even though they are way beyond providing any kind of real grip, but you can still drive on them, provided you mind the slip. I have no plans to buy any more myself, but if you want a decent cheap tire, they fit the bill, as long as you either shave them or drive slow until they wear down.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Again, my experience with them is quite the opposite. They provide plenty of grip, all the way from when they're new till they're worn down to the cords. And that's based on going through 5-6 sets, on two different tracked cars. Yes, they last a long time, too - typically 1200-1800 actual track miles, driven HARD.

I'm not saying they have as much grip as some other R compound tires (e.g. Hoosiers); they don't, but they're still a good R compound with plenty of grip. And I'm also not saying they're a good choice if you're in competition and looking for every last tenth of a second; if that's the case, you want to get Hoosiers or something similar, and you want to buy a new set for every event.

However, if you're just looking for lots of grip and fast lap times at HPDE events, I think they're a great choice - especially if value is a consideration, and you want the grip of an R compound tire but you're willing to give up those last tenths of a second per lap in order to have a tire that lasts a lot longer and also costs a lot less (as noted above, particularly in smaller sizes). I've been very happy with the RA-1 - not because it's the fastest R compound tire, but because it's a reasonably fast R compound that also provides great value.

MightyMouseTech

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxtasy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's totally different from my experience. I use them full tread, and they don't overheat at all.

I don't know what his problem is, but I've never had any chunking on the RA-1.
Again, my experience with them is quite the opposite. They provide plenty of grip, all the way from when they're new till they're worn down to the cords. And that's based on going through 5-6 sets, on two different tracked cars. Yes, they last a long time, too - typically 1200-1800 actual track miles, driven HARD.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

No offence, but if you find full tread depth RA1's have good traction and they are not overheating and chunking, you might not be driving them that hard.

I have driven my car on full tread RA1's a couple of times and it was the scariest thing I have done in a long time, the car had no grip at all. Ditto for the chunking. We did one race session that started out in the wet, so we went out on the heat cycled full depth RA1's, but the track dried out half way through the race, well, 20 minutes of that and the tires were junk.