dn

I've been kicking around the idea of picking up a used tow vehicle this year and was wondering if anyone has some knowledge to share as my expertise lies elsewhere. I REALLY like toyota and was looking at something along the lines of a 94 4runner or 2wd v6 tacoma. the thing that worries me is that im affraid the 4runner may be a bit underpowered to tow 4000lb (integra + trailer + stuff) up and down the hills between oregon and california. does anyone use one of these as a tow vehicle? am i better off with the pickup vs 4runner? i read somewhere that it is important to not tow anything heavier than the tow vehicle itself which is why im considering getting the 4runner vs the less expensive pickup. also i am just blindly assuming that 4wd does not offer much of an advantage for a tow vehicle..

Crack Monkey

I know several people who use V6 trucks to tow. They are ok, but not ideal. Usually getting over mountains is a struggle and transmission life is short. Brakes are as important as engine, so be sure to check that out as well. I'd be hesitant to tow with a used V6 - better check it over real well before towing.

I tow with a 1989 Caprice w/ a 350ci V8. It's a cop package, so has upgraded brakes, rear end, tranny, alternator, etc. Also my daily driver. Car weighs just over 4000lbs and the trailer+RX-7 is about 4200lbs.

There are also quite a few used Ford F150 V6s out there - the engine is supposed to be pretty reliable, might be worth considering. Persoanlly, I'm partial to small block Chevys - pars are cheap and plentiful and the engines are tough (though the trannies are barely average).

Buy the biggest tow vehicle you can afford. It will be safer and less hassle in the long run. If I had the budget, I'd be driving a deisel.

EMod Civic

I'd choose the pickup over the 4-runner. It's longer (a 2wd V6 Tacoma has to be an extended cab), and lower to the ground. Both are pushing the limits of weights, since they both would weigh less than your trailer. Power really isn't the problem that most people have with their tow vehicles. It's far more important to have stability and good brakes. I've been towing for about 5yrs now, and I've had 3 different tow vehicles and 2 trailers, and the basic physics seem to be the driving factor in towing performance. My first setup was a 94 Jeep Cherokee 5spd 2wd, and a 18ft dual wheel trailer+car&gear = 3700lbs. The Jeep weighed about 3200lbs. Power was no problem, but it wouldn't stop for anything. No ABS and high tongue weight = no front brakes. I found I had to run a lot of tongue wt to keep it from swaying. The next setup was a 98 Rodeo with the same trailer. It towed better, more power, better brakes. I then sold the big trailer and built a ultralight single axle trailer with a torsion axle. This trailer tows tons better than the other did. It is way lighter, and much lower. The wind drag difference was noticable, and it sways less. My current setup is a 93 Grand Cherokee 4.0 with the light trailer. This is the most stable setup yet, but it is underpowered, and has trouble maintaining speed on hills. Obviously, heavier vehicles tow better than lighter ones, but wheelbase, track, CG, springrates, damping, ABS brakes, and aerodynamics all have significant effects on how well a tow vehicle works. For instance, a mid 80s Caddy Deville may weigh 5000-6000 lbs, but they make terrible tow vehicles, because the suspension is so soft. They sway, bounce, wander, etc. That's why I would prefer the pickup. It's longer, lower, and sways less in wind.

-Chris

Victor Penner

dn,
Are you going to be racing in Oregon next season? What are you running and in what class/club?

Victor Penner

356racing

Buy a 3/4 ton Suburban and never look back. You can get late 70's early 80's w/454 for about 3K. I used to have a 95 V6 4 Runner and a VW Bug passed me on the climb to Wolf Creek Pass in Southern Colorado, wasn't even towing. Most underpowered truck I have ever owned. Sold it 2 weeks after I got home from that trip. Now I tow with a International 4700 but my Land Rover and old Suburban worked well too.

civicrr

I have been towing various things for the last 21 years. I have towed with a S-10 Blazer (2.8L V-6), a full size Chevy van (400 cu V-8), Astro van (4.8L V-6), a 2k Siverado 1/2 ton (4.8L V-8) & now with a 3/4 ton Ford CC diesel. The first three were towing boats weighing anywhere from 2.5-3k lbs. The last two were/are used for my current rig. I have a 16' open car trailer with a tire/gas rack up front. The trailer weighed 1.5k before the rack was installed. The trailer was already tongue heavy. It is much worst now. No way would a mid size handle the tongue wieght. I tow a EG Civic. I bring 4 extra wheels/tires, etc to the track. I am probably bringing about 6k lbs of junk (trailer & load in the bed) of crap to the track. The 1/2 ton worked good. The 3/4 ton (diesel) kicks ***. This is a case where bigger is better. More torque = tows easier. Bigger brakes = stops better. More tow vehical mass = more stable. Integra's weigh a bit more than Civic's. I bet your 4k lbs is conservative. As mentioned above, the smaller vehical will not hold up as well. It is being worked too hard for longevity. 4wd vehicals can't tow as much. The weight of the system takes away from the capacity of the truck. They sit higher so are less aero = worst mileage. They take more to maintain. (They are cool though.) Where a 4X4 does help is on the boat ramp with slippery conditions. Stopping will be the major concern with the mid size truck. Another problem with the smaller vehicals is that the max tow rating usually entails using a weight distributing hitch. Without it, you will be loading the rear axle too much. This will make the front end light = poor steering, braking etc. So....you can do it but should you?

Mike P.

did you get the 444E motor or the 466? We had a 444 production truck at my old job, and that thing was a freakin' pig! I think a lot got lost through the slushbox tranny, I'm guessing. It also may have been the load of equipment that was permanently in the truck, as well.

NASACHRIS

If you are using it strictly as a tow vehicle then a dually is the only way to fly. I've used several types of vehicles and you will love it. If you need it to use more often then go with at least and extended cab long-wheelbased F250. LONG WHEEL BASE LONG WHEELBAS LONG WHEELBASE. Trust me, trailer ocsillation is a BAD thing.

Chris Cobetto

Drew M

And if you are on a budget an early 90s Bronco is a good value. The wheelbase is a bit shorter but a load-levelling hitch can solve the oscilation problems.

4WDrift

On some other lists where they're really familiar with this, go long wheelbase as said, midsize is too squirrelly. Gas if it's short haul, diesel for cross country. Automatic is much easier for parking, etc.

Gary

Warren

I had a Durango to tow with. The engine was okay (5.9L), but everything ran HOT when going uphill. I even had a tranny cooler on it. Plus it would get all kinds of knocked around by the trailer. Gave up, got a turbo diesel Ram 2500, and couldn't be happier. The wheelbase is HUGE (extended cab and long bed). The damn thing is 20 ft long. Great for towing. Made my trip up to the Glen worry free.

Warren

WRXRacer111

The diesel fuel mileage certainly rocks. My parents have a 454 Suburban, my brother has a 6.5 turbodiesel. Trip mileage seems to be about 13-14 on the gas, and around 20 on the TD. The diesel seems better for towing through the mountains, I'm guessing that's the turbo-factor coming into play. Might be something to look into.

Speaking of Caprice transmissions, we dropped 2 transmissions on our mid-80s Caprice wagon. Once while towing, once while having the car loaded with people climbing a hill...

356racing

DT466! 444 is a glorified PowerStroke. We're in the process of changing the 5spd gearbox to an Allison automatic and 2spd rear end. Now all I need is some spare time to install.

dn

thanks for the replys. exactly what i needed. im actually considering buying american now, but i think in the end ill still stick with toyota v6 against recommendations. did i mention that i really like toyotas? and yeah you are right 4000 lbs is a low estimate (car weighs 2600 with driver in semi-full trim, trailer being 1+k doesnt leave a lot of room for gear), but i usually travel very light. everything i need just about fits in the integra now (it used to but now im forced to think about carrying a set of rains too).. as for next year, i was told that conference (icscc) is the big club up here in OR and that they dwarf the #2 club scca. the only race i see myself doing with them is the annual enduro put on by TC and that will most likely get moved to thill next year anyways so for now i will have to be content trying to keep up with scott at open track days. on a side note, the screwy part about running conference is that novice permit holders are required to run novice only races and the novice requirements dont do a great deal to prepare people for wheel to wheel. what this means is that unless i can figure out how to get the novice requirement waived, i wont be eligable to run with the 'old' guys anyways

civicrr

Ford Power Strokes are basically a T444E. (There are many power levels/config. available on the 444. The engines are not really comparable because of the differences that Ford specs.) The slush box would not be my first choice if I was close to the truck's limits (20k GVCW). Driving the stick would kick my butt in comute traffic. Newer PSD's (99.5-on) have more power than the originals, too. No shortage of power for me even with the auto. Towing back from Sears a couple of weeks ago, I was passing people going up the Altamont with ease. Nice not to have to shift out of overdrive.

David, are you going to do the Thunderhill open track day on Friday the 16th? $165 per car for 8 hours. I think an extra driver is $129. The guy who is organizing it opened it up to NASA N. Cal members. He started with the BMW & Porsche clubs. I would expect some clean driving. If you show up, you can check out my beast & my ghetto race car.
If you want to go Toyota, consider a Tundra or a T100 instead of the Tacoma. Same engine in the T100 (V-6), but heavier payload capacity & better brakes. The Tundra has a much better engine. It has a lot more power than it appears on paper thanks to the low rear end gearing.


[Modified by civicrr, 7:00 PM 11/6/2001]

dn

Thanks for the info. I spotted a T100 so unless someone beats me to it, thats what I'll get. I won't be showing on the 16th although its pretty darn tempting. Are you going to run the 12 hours this year?

civicrr

Nope. I will be crewing for a E2 team though. It will be the same team that took the E2 win last year. It will be a Gen 5 Civic 'hatch driven by Diverro, Fowler & Foo.

Big Phat R

For those interested in new tow vehicle purchases - I hear the future Dodges may get a Mercedes turbo diesel - just a rumour though.