96 SOHC VTEC

I recently purchased an SI sway bar, but I had yet to put it on my car. My friend came up yesterday with his Type R, and he was surprised to see how thick it was.

We went and compared it to his by holding up it, and visually it was very hard to notice the differences. You could tell it was a tad thicker, but not by much.

I was thinking about getting a Type R bar, and selling my SI bar, but then I would have to get a Beaks kit as well. I am on a tight budget, so I would really like some honest opinions of track racers. Do those extra couple of millimeters make that big of a difference? Or is the SI sway bar OK, considering I have none. I know the Type R bar is better, but is it worth spending all that extra money since I already have the SI bar?

I would really appreciate some good advice.

Thank you.




[Modified by 96 SOHC VTEC, 12:14 AM 9/9/2002]

EleanoR

Going from nothing to the Si sway bar will make a big difference IMO. My question would be would the extra thickness (really not that much visually) be worth it? I can't answer that question. Maybe someone here knows.

Good Luck.

mike

Civic242

the Si bar is 13mm thick and the Rs is 22mm thick. As to the additional force the Rs bar gives is vastly more then the Sis is.


25.40mm = 1 inch

96 SOHC VTEC

Actually, when we measured it we got 14mm, not that it matters.

Def

The difference in rigidity is the Diameter raised to the fourth power. Or D^4.

So the Type R bar is 720% stiffer than the Si bar.

I personally went from a 13mm LS rear bar to a 19mm Neuspeed bar and the difference was quite profound. And I think that was only about 350% stiffer(too lazy to mess with the Windows calculator again ).

So if you've got the bank, get the 22mm bar. If not, don't sweat it because 13mm is much better than nothing back there.

96 SOHC VTEC

Good lord! That is a lot stiffer considering we could hardly note the differences by looking at them.

EleanoR

Def, I am not getting your math on this one. Explain how you got the 720% # if you would please. I tried all types of #'s and combinations to get the 720% but didn't come close.

Are you taking the 13mm (si sway bar) and putting that to the 4th power and also taking 22mm for the ITR bar to the 4th power and then subracting them? Or are you subtracting 13 from 22 and then taking that # to the 4th power? I am not quite understanding how you go about doing this.

Mike

BagelW

Hmmm...

Maybe the sway bar you have is not an actual Si bar. Do you absolutely know for sure?

The Type R sway bar should be visably thicker in diameter. My stock Si bar looks miniscule compared to my roommates Type R bar.

Anyways, you should go ahead and put the Si bar on anyway. It will make a very noticable difference in handling. You can always get a thicker sway bar later when you've got more money.

chad

si sucks....
type r is nice.....


"there was no noticable difference"???// big difference if you ask me!

BagelW

Oh...I just saw that.

IMO (and I'm sure others on this board), I think the Type R bar looks much beefier.

JeffS

13^4 = 28561
22^4 = 234256

234256-28561=205695
205695/28561=7.201xxx
= 720%

Angry Joe

Jeff I think it is radius raised to the 4th, not diameter

Angle of twist from a torsional load is equal to (T*L)/(J*G)

The factor which incorperates the radius is the moment of interta 'J' which is equal to (3.14*radius^4)/2 All other variables are equal for both bars

By my calculation the ITR swaybar is 8.2 times as stiff... of course its late and I could have made a stupid mistake somewhere


[Modified by Angry Joe, 12:59 AM 9/13/2002]

Def

It could be that it is radius^4, as I was going from memory and didn't feel like dragging the statics book out. I have heard from other places that it is Diameter^4 tho'.

Whatever it is, a small change in bar diameter equals a HUGE increase in rigidity. I know my 13mm to 19mm rear bar change produced a huge change in the way my Integra handles. The suspension is stock otherwise and it is fairly close to neutral in long sweepers.

But if you don't have a bar back there now, just go with the 13mm one and you'll definitely feel a difference.

Harpua

I just recently put an SI 13 mm Rear Sway on my 99 Civic EX (along with Neuspeed Race Springs, AGX shocks, SI Frt Strut Bar, Neuspeed RR Strut Bar and Lower Tie Bar). IMO, the 13 mm bar matches the stock 22 mm front bar very well. My car handles very flat and neutral. If you used the Typer R rear bar with the stock front bar, I think the car would be unbalanced and the rear end would be too tight and come around too easily.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Harpua

One thing I think you guys are forgetting in your calculations is that the SI and ITR bars are dimensionally different. The distance between the endlink points and the center line of the bar is different (the SI is shorter). This affects the moment the bar sees about its axis. With the same force applied to the endlink point, the SI bar would twist less than a 13mm bar dimensionally the same as the ITR(and GSR,LS,del Sol, 4gen Civy) I'm not saying the SI bar is stiffer than the ITR, just that its more stiff than the calculations above show. I believe the SI bar is stiffer than the 14 mm GSR rear bar.

Just food for thought.

96 SOHC VTEC

Don't know for sure, but I have a link to a website that explains SI sway bar installation, and the bar looks the same in the pictures.

Mr. Choi

are you sure taht the SI bar is 13 mm? isnt the integra bars 13mm? i found this site it tells me that the si bar is 18mm. http://sales.hondatwincam.com/modelspecs.htm

MrBite

Stock GS-R (14mm) vs. Stock ITR (22mm). That's a big difference.

[edit] smaller pic


[Modified by MrBite, 7:52 PM 9/21/2002]

Night_Minx

i race my civic on a track, with several tight corners, some long sweeps, and a banked turn. I think if you want to not be bothered with a possibilty of rear frame damage, the Si is a great piece. I have one, and love it. I feel my car is very balanced, and neutral. Dont forget, spacing out the front wheels 5mm, getting rear camber close to -1 degree and increasing rear tire pressures will only enhance the cars feeling. Coupled with a Si rear sway, it is very effective.

Civic242

Come on now that's not a huge difference at all, barely a 1/2" at most between them!!


[Modified by Civic242, 12:01 AM 9/22/2002]

manveer

In regards to the equation for stiffness (from http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com):

twist = (2 x torque x length)/(p x diam4 x material modulus.)

http://www.grassrootsmotorsports.com/antirollbars.html

Mr. Choi

thanks for the pic but that wasnt my original question.

here it is again for those who needs a second look.

are you sure taht the SI bar is 13 mm? isnt the integra bars 13mm? i found this site it tells me that the si bar is 18mm. http://sales.hondatwincam.com/modelspecs.htm

Rob Dizzle

go type r or go home!

wow, it also happens to be that I am selling mine!

ZygSpeed

There IS such a thing as too much rear bar!
Put the Si bar in and take it for a spin!
Then decide!


[Modified by Zygspeed, 8:33 PM 9/25/2002]