DustinWilson

Hey guys, I just joined the site. I've been perusing the forums the past couple days and can't quite find the exact answer I'm looking for. I currently own an S2000 that I've autocrossed and tracked. I'm thinking of buying a cheap EF Si to have fun with over the winter and build into a track car I can drive on the street. I want to keep it simple. No swaps (not yet at least) no BBKs, etc. I prefer to spend very little money on mods and just enjoy track days.

Here are the current plans:

Buy car
Strip said car
Get brakes sufficient for track day (pads/fluid flush)
Install coilovers (Koni/GC? Progressive?)
Big rear sway bar
15x7 wheels / 205 - 200 treadwear tires
Possibly harness bar/harnesses/racing seat

Main goal is to keep costs low and just have fun beating a reliable car on track.

All this being said, is the stock braking system up to the challenge of HPDE events (read: rear drum brakes)? I will be going to Road ATL, VIR, CMP, etc. And if so, what brake pads/shoes do you recommend? I see people like Hawk HP+, but what do I do for the rear, if anything?

If there is a small barrier of entry for this car to track, I'm all in to pick one up. I just don't want the headache right now of replacing all my suspension bushings, swapping out knuckles for bigger brakes etc. Prefer to keep car mostly stock and just prep it for the abuse. Oh, and why not track the S, you say? It's a lot more money putting $12k into the wall vs $4k, and more money to spend on track events. I feel like I'll sleep better nights before events knowing I've got a much smaller investment.

Pics of the S!





Thanks much!

DustinWilson

Anyone have any thoughts?

KoRn_vIRuZ

I think it's a great idea. I too have more fun when I'm not worrying about damaging an expensive car. If it were me I'd start with a full service (belts, fluids, tires, worn parts, etc) and then upgrade as needed depending on what you feel at the track. Each person has their own tastes, which will influence the upgrade path. For instance a lot of my friends like to tune their engines. I, on the other hand, when I started attending track days, felt a need for a better seat right away and didn't care at all for more power.

DustinWilson

Thanks so much for the reply! I agree completely. I'll start with making sure everything is fresh (fluids) and everything is in working order. Then, I too think I'll get a decent seat (recommended to me by a NASA/SCCA wheel-to-wheel racer) and go ahead and get some coilovers and track-specific brake pads (those cars are way too washy stock, especially being this old to have a fun time on track without coilovers imo).

KoRn_vIRuZ

Yeah, I agree. I failed to mention that because on my first track day with this car (EK) I had coilovers and tires already. I had learned from a previous car that I didn't like stock suspension and tires. On a RWD it may be fun to slide around but on a FWD it was "understeer city" (on an "ordinary" car, certainly a stock ITR will be sweet). Interestingly the stock brakes held up, I guess at the beginning one is not that hard on the brakes (also some tracks are more demanding than others).

Anyhow, I feel that starting with a reliable car and following the "track it, upgrade whatever feels wrong, repeat" cycle is a good one.

Matt_EH3

I have been using a 93 EH3 as a track car for the same reasons. It also gives me an inexpensive project to work on for the track related stuff and allows me to keep a more streetable car for daily driving. I am personally done with track oriented suspensions on a daily.

Now, these cars are known to be weak on the bearings, ball joints and bushings, especially with old age. I would start by making sure that nothing is wobbly before I even consider putting it on the track.

Proper fluids, steel braided lines and you are good to go.

Other than that, you have the right idea. A few cycles of suspension, brakes, wheel/tire mods and you will have a fun car to throw around the track.

I would personally not strip the car up until you are ready to install a roll bar or roll cage. The weight savings are minimal and it sucks a lot less to drive to the track with a full interior. I ended up stripping mine when I got the roll bar done. I ended up removing everything because the PO had had an incident with an oil container on the carpet and it stank inside the car. Otherwise, I would have kept the carpet in the front. I still have my door cards.

Colin

iTrader: (1)

If you're not wanting to replace the bushings then an EF is not the right place to start. I know I'm picking one thing from a list of stuff you didn't want to deal with but I think bushings specifically are worth pointing out. Any car that old, which hasn't had the bushings replaced already, will certainly be ready for replacements. Most of the bushings might not be a big problem but the rear trailing arm bushing in particular I'd consider a "must replace" part. I'd also make sure you replace the clutch cable - again, if it hasn't been replaced then it's just a ticking time bomb.

solorex

Go through all the bushings and ball joints. If the car has any sort of mileage, and hasn't had them replaced, you will have to do this. As for brakes, fresh fluid, braided lines, the stock drums are fine just make sure they are working properly (serviced). I really like the Hawk DTC60's for the fronts. Swap them out at the track, it takes so little time to do.

Matt_EH3

If it is a track dedicated car, I wouldn't even bother. I personally use the DTC-60 pads to drive to the track.

90civichbsi

iTrader: (1)

I have done this too, but the DTC-30 would probably be a better option if this is going to be driving on the street often. At stock power levels you won't overheat them. They also have a minimum temp of 100 degrees vs the 200 degree min on the DTC 60. I ran them on my 300hp turbo car before I added aero and didn't have any issues.

Like the others have said I would replace the bushings. Just get the Energy Suspension master kit and go through the car. I just replaced my first ES kit after 10+ years of street and track use. I would use the Hardrace bushings for the trailing arms though.

DustinWilson

Great, great insights here, guys. Thanks so much. I'm taking notes and building a checklist of items to go through and get on order.
I've read mixed reviews on the Energy Suspension bushings. Apparently you have to keep them lubed whereas replacement hard rubber units are essentially maintenance free? Would you guys still use the polyurethane bushings vs just OE or hard rubber replacement? I really don't have a ton of tools to get all these swapped out. I'll start doing some digging to see what tools I may need, but that may end up costing me a good bit as well.

Colin

iTrader: (1)

I also had ES bushings for a decade, they worked great and I had zero problems. They were even still in good condition when I replaced the in favor of rubber Hardrace bushings. I've seen the issues you mention regarding the ES bushings but my guess is that the failures are an old design/material or that it has a lot to do with the weather/environment. I've also only seen problem photos of the red ones and I had the black ones.

I wouldn't hesitate to use the ES again. Install is time consuming but you can do it in your garage with nothing more than a vise, drill, hammer, chisel/punch, and a hacksaw. When I replaced mine with the Hardrace I pulled all the parts off the car and took them into a shop to have them pressed in - pretty affordable, quick, and easy.

Lastly, for a track car I'd definitely recommend spherical rear trailing arm bushings. Mine made a huge difference. I'm using PCI but ASR and a couple other companies make them as well.

90civichbsi

iTrader: (1)

I never had an issue with them or noise. The only time I ever lubed them is if I was working on something else and happened to have the part off the car. I recommended the hard race RTA bushing if you are on a budget, but the spherical are the way to go if you have the money. The ES bushings are cheap and very easy to replace the second time around.

Up until about 2 years ago I ran 100% ES polyurethane bushings. I currently run all ES except for, PCI bronze front upper arm bushings, PCI spherical front lower inner arm bushings and Hard Race RTA bushings. The only reason I am not running the PCI RTA's is because I am using 90-93 integra rear arms that have a bigger RTA and no one has that size in spherical. I'll be switching back to civic arms soon.

As far as replacing them, do yourself a favor and buy one of these when the go on sale: 20 Ton Shop Press - Hydraulic Shop Presses on Sale Look up a 20 or 25% coupon as well. I got mine for about $120. Aside from pressing out bushings I find all sorts of uses for it now that I own one. The 12 ton press will probably get the job done too. The first time I did the bushings I did it with a hacksaw and hammer. Never again.

Here is a good source for OEM Koyo wheel bearings for cheap if you need them: autohaus.az (you can do these easily with the press too)

Matt_EH3

My car had come with some crappy aftermarket rear lower arms and bushings that were shot. I replaced them with OEM arms rubber and they work very well (granted it is a huge upgrade vs. what was on there). I pulled the arms myself, got some junkyard OEM arms, and was lucky enough to have a neighbor with the proper equipment who was happy to press them in for me.

I have had issues with ES bushings in other (non Honda) cars before, where the center hole became oval after 2 years on about 80% of the bushings I installed, so I am staying away from them. However, reading this, it seems that people have had success with them on here. Mind you, there are a few factors here, such as ambient temperature like mentioned before, but also the type of tire you run and the weight of the car. Grippier tires on heavier cars tend to be hard on bushings, no matter what material they are made of.

No matter what you choose, make sure you load your suspension when reattaching the arms so the bushings don't bind. That makes a huge difference on their longevity (and the car's handling characteristics).

90civichbsi

iTrader: (1)

As far as ovaling goes, it really depends how that bushing is supposed to move as to whether or not it will oval. The other car's you are comparing may require more compliance out of the bushings. Also softer suspensions will require more movement from the bushings and exacerbate any issues. On 88-91 civics the inner LCA bushings require the most compliance because they are pivoting on the axis with the radius rod in the front and RTA in the rear.

Here are what mine looked like after 10 years of street and track abuse. Texas heat and 200TW tires. There's some slight ovaling on the inner and outer of the rear LCA bushings, but there was no play in them. Also urethane and spherical don't require you to load the suspension because the metal bushing in the center rotates separately from the bushing. If you use stock or hard rubber RTA bushings, be sure to clock the bushing when you install it to match how low the car is.

Matt_EH3

Interesting stuff. Thanks for taking the time to post up the pictures.

Vette990

Awesome car! Been thinking about going from my c5z to an s2000.