moualu

hey guys, I want remove my power steering on my ek (not juste cut the belt, I will put real manual rack), I know the steering wheel gonna be more harder and I will have a better road feeling, my question is about the ratio, is it better for a lapping car to have a power steering with a smaller ratio or a bigger ratio with a manual rack ( I keep the oem steering wheel ) thanks for yours answer

moualu

realy,, 79 views and no replies,,, help me please I need help about steering rack ratio what is the best for lapping car

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Ok here goes.
Since you are relatively new, and never filled in the blanks lets start there.
What's your driving experience on the track?

KoRn_vIRuZ

Somewhat subjective. I myself like power steering. I can focus on the driving better when I am not making a lot of effort to turn the wheel.
But it depends, a light car with narrow tires won't require a lot of steering effort at speed, so it may be great to have a manual rack for feel. The opposite for a heavier car.

moualu

I have around 100h of track, and I just ansking because im not sure if im gonna loose second on track because it will take more rotation of the steering wheel for get the same wheel angle

The sweed

Its a good question.. I am not very experienced when it comes to driving road race. Building the cars are my thing... I have put a lot of thoughts in this and you need driving experience to determine what you like, so I guess it verys depending what the driver like and what kind of car and how much tight corners the track has..

As everything in racing you want flexibility so the best thing is a programmable electric powered steering rack with options on ratios and that can be programmed to assist according to vehicle speed.That way you free up power on the straights and sort of have the feel of a manual rack at higher speeds and the assist at lower speeds. I am kind of surprised that I haven´t came across something like that since there such a huge aftermarket for hondas. I have looked into building one though.

testify

You can easily get away with a slower rack on a road course, and yes, a really quick rack can be a PITA on a road course.

Road course is not like autocross in that you aren't quickly going from lock to lock, you are make much smaller movements with the wheel and this a slower rack can allow you to make finer, more precise inputs.

Nowhere is this more apparent than in the variable ratio racks of modern cars. If you hop in a 95+ M3 it has a variable rack that is quick at high steering angles like you'd see at sub highway speeds, and slow in the middle, where you'd be driving at highway speeds.

Same goes for power steering. You don't need it on a road course as inputs are small so you won't need it to assist you.

FlewByU352

Not saying the fastest guys in Japan are supreme masters of all knowing track setups... but every single one of them retains power steering. It takes a significant effort out of high load sticky tire situations that wear on the driver. It also allows you to make faster reactions and input which I see as a good thing if you've ever been sideways through a turn. My current setup is around 3.2 turns lock to lock and to be honest I wish it were around 2.8.

testify

Your steering ratio is low which increases steering effort on your car.

At track speeds, with a 20:1 rack like he is considering, you don't needs PS. Effort is minimal.

FlewByU352

I'm also looking at hand placement by keeping hands on the wheel without going hand over hand or shuffling. S2000 2.4ish turns LTL, NSX 1.91 LTL, Evo 2.1 LTL, STI 2.5 LTL. A quick steering rack isn't wrong, it allows for better driver control. Having a quick rack without an assist is going to be very heavy, if you're worried about weight or loss of HP turning the pump... make more power and drive better.

moualu

I have a civic 2000 so it a light car, I think im gonna take manual rack, somme one know what is the ratio of civic 2000 manual rack vs a power steering ?

KoRn_vIRuZ

20:1 vs 17:1? 17:1 is already slow, you don't want to go slower.

testify

Get a Quaife Quick rack and then sell it when you realize it isn't easy to drive.

That's what I did.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Plus one on this.
I use a stock EG rack.
At speed a quicker rack wont have any bearing on your lap times.
Power steering, or electro steering doesn't help much either.
If you are getting older is might help you more on longer runs where you endurance isn't what it used to be.
Take the advice above or don't.. See for yourself if you think it might help you.
You can always sell it to some kid who thinks it will make it easier to drive his street mobile.
Manual racks only hurt you in the paddock as you are pulling in and out of your stall.

redlinetuning

Sounds like you've already made up your mind and switching over.

However, I have a power rack with a looped hose and removed the power steering motor to fit my turbo setup. I can tell you that it's a workout on the autocross, it's not so bad on the road course.

moualu

I dont made my idea, I dont know what I should do, I whant the best road filling, but I whant the smaller ratio, is it will make a big diference betwene 17:1 and 20:1 ?

Matt_EH3

I run a manual rack. My Civic had power steering when it got out of the factory, but the previous owner changed it over to a Cx manual rack. I personally like it that way, and I find it is only harder to park the car. Once the car is moving, it is barely noticeable, even with wide, sticky rubber.

As for ratio, I only need to change hand position if a track has a very low speed chicane (mid-range of the 2nd gear). That is very, very tight for a road course.

What I personally like about the no-power steering, is that I see it as one less system to worry about breaking on the car. I know I could have a better ratio, but I have learned to live with it (and it is not so bad). Less stuff potentially breaking = more time on track for me.

The only thing I would see being an issue is if you want to have a smaller steering wheel. I have a 350mm and I like it, but I know people sometimes like them smaller.

moualu

ok thanks evry one I will think about this, yours help is apreciate

No18

I started with power, converted to manual for a while when my pump took a dump, then converted back when I was able to get around to rebuilding it. Definitely sticking with power steering. Someone mentioned it above, but I would expand it to say that I believe most modern race cars use some sort of power steering. For your consideration.

tcrane

I run no power steering in my Civic and I prefer it that way, even with an aggressive diff its not all that bad. I feel like a get a better "feel" for what the car's doing without p/s..

Mind you i'm only around 180hp, maybe if it was a higher hp car, 200-300hp FWD, you may want p/s..

Try it both ways and see what works for you.

tony_2018

At the speed your going on the track, you should still be able to turn the steering wheel with a manual rack. You'll have to drive a car that has a manual rack on the track to understand.

EzraShekelstein

Why not loop the rack and t off the hardline with a filter on top? Excellent mod copied from realtime's type r

Honda Type R

I have a completely converted power rack and I plan to keep it. The increased effort only matters in parking lot type situations. I have a lot of seat time with the conversion and I definitely prefer it to a power assist. I completely gutted the rack and welded the pinion shaft. I followed a write up on a Miata forum. The DC Integra, EK Civic, and NA/NB Miata use the same rack and pinion design. The EG Civic rack is different. The pinion twists to align the ports to direct the fluid. If you convert to manual and don't weld the shaft, you end up with slop in the steering.

Shawncs

Bringing up an old thread because I'm at the point of thinking about pulling my PS on my Integra track day car. I replaced the pump and rack last month with reman. And after my first track day the seals on the rack must have gave out because my inner boots are filled with fluid! Honestly I think I'm just tired of dealing with the PS fluid. I've been to NJMP a couple times this year watching the Honda Challenge guys and I don't see a single person using power steering. So I obviously have to replace my rack AGAIN but now I'm trying to figure out how I want to put it together. Pump or no pump.

Kaan

iTrader: (3)

My integra had a power rack that i looped and ran... it was fine. The EM1 has a manual rack/subframe and its also fine... but the power rack, i think, has a better ratio by a little bit. I'll be depowering and rebuilding a rack to put in over this winter.

I dont have a single issue moving a manual or depowered rack with Toyo RRs and tight turns.... i dont even notice it at speed, especially on track. But i can promise its not hurting or helping lap times. reviewing the video, i only have to move my hands slightly and never have to shuffle.