Tyson

so im looking for a new HPDE pad. not a STREET pad, not a RACE pad. im talking specifically for my s2000 actually.

for the street, stock is fine with me. so i still want a pad i can switch at the track (or at home) and take the abuse. but blues and other race pads eat up rotors way too much for what i really need.

any experiences at the track? do they live up to the marketing blurb?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hawk HP Plus Sport/Track disc brake pads are designed for sports cars, coupes and sedans for sport driving in autocross, Solo II and many “track day” applications. Additionally, the Hawk Performance HP Plus Ferro-Carbon compound can take the heat at the track and get you home safely without having to change your brake pads in and out. This compound was designed for the serious street and autocross enthusiast.

Warning! Due to the dramatic friction levels produced by this product to achieve "race-level" braking, rotor wear, noise, dust, and pad life may be affected.

The high friction level of Hawk HP Plus pads will be more responsive than most standard original brakes and their high resistance to brake fade makes them a superb upgrade for high performance streetcars used in competition, for high speed driving or that encounter repetitive heavy braking.</TD></TR></TABLE>

prkiller

Tyson,
You keep changing that avatar pic. I can't keep up!

As for your question, it's just a question of what your really looking to accomplish!

What tires are you running at the track? If you are sticking with street tires, and wont be looking for every last little bit of time, the HP+ pads will work perfect for you. They do just a lot, and make some noise once in a while, but are worth it!

I ran them for a few years, and you will really like them! They wont hold up at the track if you are "really" abusing them or if you are running an "R" compound tire. They will still fade.
But if you want to go to the track, have fun, and drive at the limit of your equipment, they will be perfect for what your looking for!

They truly are a pad between the HPS and Blue!

Tyson

good point on tires. id use whats left of my bridgestone S02's. a very good summer tire with a wear rating of 140 A A. im amazed it came as a stock tire.

since im looking for a "track" pad, i dont care about noise and dusting. i just want it to hold up so i dont have to baby the brakes while driving on track (what a waste of time) like with "performance" street pads on track but not destroy my rotors either. and being able to drive back home without having to change pads at the track, as the marketing info said, is a big plus for a track day experience.

the only other relevant information on the HP+ i found is the initial bite is a bit too much, making it hard to modulate. not sure how much of an issue that is...

Vracer111

I guess it depends on how good the stock brake system is on the vehicle. On my '98 V6 Camaro (3550+lbs with me and a passenger) the Hawk HP+ Front/HPS rear combination has been excellent on track. No fading whatsoever when being pushed as hard as I dare on 275/40-17 Nitto NT-555RII's DOT-R tires. It has big 12.1 rotors all around though. Not sure how HP+'s on a Honda/Acura would fare being that the Axxis Ultimates were smoking on our '90 Integra RS riding on 205/50-15 Hankook R-S2 Z212's after the first 3-4 laps of Pueblo Motorsport Park in ~40 degree weather. I think the Integra needs some brake upgrades before it steps foot on track again... Are Hawk HP+ pads more heat resistance than Axxis Ultimate pads?

BudMan

HP+ is between the two. I've used all extensively on the track and street. Yes - I've run the blues on the street.

I have also run cobalts (Andies has got a great reputation for his product - not just marketing hype). http://www.cobaltfriction.com/

Gransport makes an awesome track pad for my race ITR. I'm sure they have a solid combo pad. Call Carl at http://www.tracracing.com & check with him.

the hawks are my least favorite.

Tyson

i think ultimates would be considered on par with hawk HPS. and definately arent suitable for reasonable track speeds. just a good street pad.

prkiller

Sounds like the HP+ is exactly what your looking for Tyson. Get a set and let me know what you think!

BudMan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vracer111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Not sure how HP+'s on a Honda/Acura would fare being that the Axxis Ultimates were smoking on our '90 Integra RS riding on 205/50-15 Hankook R-S2 Z212's after the first 3-4 laps of Pueblo Motorsport Park in ~40 degree weather. I think the Integra needs some brake upgrades before it steps foot on track again... Are Hawk HP+ pads more heat resistance than Axxis Ultimate pads?</TD></TR></TABLE>

tip: Axxis sucks

Tyson

ill look into the cobolt gt-sport too. some user says it has less initial bite for better overall performance over the HP+. but it might be limited to autocross, and temps definately do get higher on track.

Vracer111

The Axxis Ultimates are rated a maximum continuous operating temperature of 1022 degrees F. Can't find temperature range info on the HP+ (maximum operating temp of ~950 degrees I thought), but the Hawk blue optimum temperature range is 250-1000 degrees F.

I like the bite of the Hawk HP+ pads, it's a little bit sensitive when autocrossing but just right braking on track IMO.

Tyson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vracer111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I like the bite of the Hawk HP+ pads, it's a little bit sensitive when autocrossing but just right braking on track IMO.</TD></TR></TABLE>

great, thanks for your input. thats more of what i want to hear.

i dont really trust marketing data. especially across brands. ultimates have empirically shown to be unsuitable for reasonable track speeds. so have HPS.

dvp

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vracer111 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Axxis Ultimates are rated a maximum continuous operating temperature of 1022 degrees F. Can't find temperature range info on the HP+ (maximum operating temp of ~950 degrees I thought), but the Hawk blue optimum temperature range is 250-1000 degrees F.

I like the bite of the Hawk HP+ pads, it's a little bit sensitive when autocrossing but just right braking on track IMO.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what I thought but more than one person now I've heard says the HP+'s can take more temperature.

MattP

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">great, thanks for your input. thats more of what i want to hear.

i dont really trust marketing data. especially across brands. ultimates have empirically shown to be unsuitable for reasonable track speeds. so have HPS. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's been my experience as well for autocross and track days (91 CRX Si). A little noisy, but not bad if you put the anti squeal shims back on with some of that grease. When I wear out this set of HP+, I'll get another set.

BudMan

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MattP &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's been my experience as well for autocross and track days (91 CRX Si). A little noisy, but not bad if you put the anti squeal shims back on with some of that grease. When I wear out this set of HP+, I'll get another set.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Rip the shims off of all hawk pads. With high temp use, they will come loose and then move around, digging into the rotor hat. I've never had a set that didn't do that...After the first few times, I simply rip'm off & install the pad.

Then again, I don't care about a little squealing - just brake harder & you won't hear it

FWIW - none of my comments earlier came from marketing junk. All were from experience on my ITR (see sig) and HPDE's with Porsche, Audi, Corvette, 350Z, private - ITRCA, and SCCA along with now a couple of SCCA Club Racing events.

MattP

There were no shims on the pads that I bought. I was referring to the Honda anti-squeal shim that clips to the back of the outside pad.

CRX Lee

I have been very happy with my HP+ on the street almost entirely but have really liked them in a few lapping days with the street car as well. I have the Integra/Civic EX front upgrade on my street CRX but I really like them to the point that after nearly 2 years of use, I will certainly buy more when they wear out. Although I have heard comments about noise from the HP+, I have experienced none whatsoever. I switched to them from EBC Greenstuff (liked the first set okay, hated the next set) after driving someone else's CRX hard on the street and have not looked back. The Greenstuff definitely faded on the limited track use which the HP+ have not.

glagola1

I wouldn't run HP+ on a track. I glazed mine in my S2000 at CMP. I had to borrow a friends car to finish the remaining few sessions. That's bullshit.

I would get a more serious pad for track... and I wouldn't run the HP+ on the street either because on an S2000 they are too much even for auto-x IMO. Now on a CRX or civic/integra I bet they are great but the S2000 just had too good of brakes and the HP+ messes them up.

Stinkycheezmonky

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by glagola1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wouldn't run HP+ on a track. I glazed mine in my S2000 at CMP. I had to borrow a friends car to finish the remaining few sessions. That's bullshit.

I would get a more serious pad for track... and I wouldn't run the HP+ on the street either because on an S2000 they are too much even for auto-x IMO. Now on a CRX or civic/integra I bet they are great but the S2000 just had too good of brakes and the HP+ messes them up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm sorry, but...that doesn't sound right. Glazing pads, sure. You can glaze just about anything, and it sucks. But HP+ too much for a street pad, on ANY car is just nonsense. They're just not that aggressive. This isn't meant as a personal attack or anything, but maybe you need to work on your braking technique.

Tyson

glagola (do a search folks), thanks for you input. i value your experience with the s2000. glad you got to see this. same to you lee.

its still a toss up right now between HP+ and cobalt gt sport.

and i am also considering a track pad for my crx as well. i wonder if my set of blues that have been sitting for 4 years will last... but rotors are so damn cheap for the crx, using blues that destroy rotors is a non issue.

Stinkycheezmonky

Tyson, FWIW, I liked the GT-Sports on however many Civics and Integras I drove with them way more than I liked the HP+'s on my bro's 240SX.

mike-y

I've been pretty happy with the carbotech XP8s I have on my B16A civic (with integra brakes). They have good bite and feel, and held up great on the track (weekend events at WSIR, and Spring Mountain), as well as teh drive to and from (including the ~600 mile round trip to Pahrump). In fact, with these, I don't even bother to switch back to street pads anymore, since I don't drive the car much. I do switch to R comps when I get to the track though.

They don't require warming up to work on the street either. Cold, they feel like stock pads, although they can be a little touchy after warmed up (i.e., don't stomp on them), This may not be as much of an issue in a heavier car like the S2k. They have started to squeel a bit when the brakes are applied, but otherwise, they don't make any noise. dusting is acceptable to me (and its easy to clean), and they don't seem to be abnormally eating up the rotors either.

you might want to give them a call and see which compound they recommend for your car though, as they have a decent range to choose from.

Fuuma0083

I wouldn't suggest HP+ because they do eat rotors just not excessive but enough you would want a pair of rotors with it. Also the Carbotech Panther Plus eats rotors as well. The Cobalt GTS is probably our best bet.

6spdKEG

I'll give a second on Xp8s. Work great on and off the track. K20 95 Civic cp, 2460with driver & 2640 with me & instructor. I do not daily drive my track car but I know when the brakes get warmed up, they like to stop!!!

For the money, I don't think you can beat the deal with the Cobalt Blues. Xp8s are more expensive although I heard they will last a lot longer and will be better on your rotors than the Cobalt Blues. You can get new rotors from Carbotech for like $7 a pop when you order a full set of PADS. BONUS!!!

Although I've never ran the HP+, I don't think I would trust them at the track. To me the time and money you spend getting to the track isn't worth having to deal with a Pad that ends up not cutting it.

I've read a ton about proper pad and rotor break-in. I would suggest going to especially Stop-tech's website and reading all their stuff and carbotechs and Brembos. I don't think proper bedding of brakes is stressed enough.

Start Here:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_i...shtml
there are more links to read at the bottom of the page

solo-x

the compound type of the cobalt and hawk pads lends them to being more abusive to the rotor. carbotech uses a different compound that isn't nearly as rough on the rotors. plus, the dust isn't as caustic so it's less likely to ruin your wheels. i've used bobcats and Panther+ on my STS car and the rotors look like new. i've seen XP8's used on an RX8 for an HPDE and the rotors looked like new on that car too. certainly the direction i'd be going if rotor wear was a concern.

glagola1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stinkycheezmonky &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm sorry, but...that doesn't sound right. Glazing pads, sure. You can glaze just about anything, and it sucks. But HP+ too much for a street pad, on ANY car is just nonsense. They're just not that aggressive. This isn't meant as a personal attack or anything, but maybe you need to work on your braking technique.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I see you've never driven an S2000 on the street with properly bedded HP+'s. Have you seen the size of the rotors on an S2000? Do you know how much the car weighs? Yeah, you could basically drop a feather on the brake pedal and send the car into threshold braking. Trust me. It doesn't work very well. You simply don't have the experience so quit speculating. It doesn't help anybody if you postulate educated guesses based on your personal experience... especially if it doesn't resemble the OP's exact situation. I can see where you're coming from since I had the HP+'s on my eg hatch a few years ago. I mean, with it's undersized rotors the pads worked great for that extra bite. That's why I bought them for the S2000.


It's funny... after I glazed them, they work GREAT as a street pad! Go figure.