VTECIntegra9

Sooo maybe this is a little o/t for the rr/ax board but I dont look at any of the other forums so I'm going to share my short story and ask for some advise if any here...

So the end of 2 summers ago I performed some head work on my engine , milled 0.020", flat valves, ctr camz, ARP head studs etc... did the work at my job at the time... machine shop ... everything is peach- head is beautiful... So I decided to be a noob and thin out my head gasket, it leaked and yadda yadda don't wanna talk about it.

So last summer I pulled the head, put on a new head gasket - much better. However, I have still been getting a very small oil leak from the two exhaust side corners of the head/block interface... The backside was a problem area that I had repaired so I kind of expected the small leak near the exhaust manifold... but on the front side of the engine I have been getting a little more severe leak from the corner behind the power steering pump.

Since removing the P/S, I now notice this leak a lot more and want to fix it before mid-ohio this weekend...

So, I was reminded that I didn't retorque my head studs after the last head gasket replacement! Well - that should fix my problem!

SOooo yesterday I spent a few hours and retorqued them. I backed them off about 1/4 turn in sequence and then torqued them to 80ft-lbs in sequence.

Put everything back together and went for a test drive.

When I popped the hood - the left side looks BONE DRY!!! First time ever since getting the car.. woot!

The right side... is absolutely saturated with hot oil... all down the block, flowing down the engine/ p/s mount, right down to a nice puddle on the ground....

The oil is flowing right out of the oil return passage and out to atmosphere...

FACK...Now it is isolated but way worse then when I started and not sure why... I have an event this weekend and can't tear it down...but sure as **** have to fix it before I leave Sunday.

Has anyone had problems in this area? Problems while going through a retorque? Anyone know a better method to re-torque the head studs?...

At this point I will RTV the freaking corner of the engine just so it's manageable this weekend but the way it's dripping now I would not be allowed on track... It's not a high-pressure side leak but it's higher than atmosphere so out it comes.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... plus the Wings lost last night in game7 - grrrr

/end rant.... Sorry if this thread is useless but I'm open to any suggestions you guys want to throw out there.. I can take pictures later tonight when I get home.

Edit: I am using OEM Honda head gasket. Engine is 1994 B18C1 that came with the car. Engine block has not been touched.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Sorry about your "wings" I though the sharks would choke for sure.
It's what they do. Who knows they might go further than they ever have.
Even though you machined the head and it comes out true, im leaning more toward warpage, or even the head bolt threads than a gasket.
You can try another type of gasket than oem maybe the OEM is the problem?
But if the car is dripping maybe you shouldnt run it period?
Leaking oil on the track puts others at risk, and ya might just kill your engine.
Neither are good things.
Call your sanctioning body and explain the situation.. ya never know they might refund your entry fees or let you run on a different date.
Better to errr on the side of caution here.
Keep us posted.

Cameron R

I would try a composite HG. Also, it's better the with the Wings gone, that way you won't have to see them crushed by the Canucks.....

JW racing

When I do engines,I normally would resurface the head and the block at the same time, and I tq down the arp's to 80lbs in 3 steps 30-60-80. Recently my own engine had a leak on my stock block K20 and I resurfaced the head and it got worse. So I machined both and boom, good seal.

VTECIntegra9

Yeah I'm heavily leaning on the possibility that the engine block need resurfacing. The block has 170k miles on it and the last of them are mostly track. I'm not going to the track with the car leaking oil don't worry.. Even where it's leaking it's getting blown right at the axle/lca and prolly brakes and tire too (no fender liners).... yeah it's a must-fix.

My other option is to swap my suspension and slicks onto my friend's teg (he's going to be riding shotgun anyway), which is pretty much the exact same car, and roll out in his - and fix it right at a later date...

I know what I SHOULD do is remove engine, overhaul the block, bore, new pistons, etc... just hate to do that when I havn't even gotten to blow it up yet!

raffaelli

Before you pull the engine. Maybe you can try a felpro head gasket. They are more squishy than the metal OE filling in some deflect more better.

pasaunde

Sounds like you just have a leak from the oil returns. I believe it's pretty common for people to place a thin film of Honda bond around the oil returns on the HG during assembly.

VTECIntegra9

Yeah I was reading some old posts and some say they always put the thin layer around the returns before slapping the head back on - I will have to try that next time. I had a Felpro gasket before but it's the one I f'd up the first time - so I got an OEM because it was sitting in my friend's toolbox unused.

But - as an update... I tore it back down tonight (cams off, timing belt off, covers off) and found the problem...

The exhaust cam (timing belt side) cam seal was like this: |/| in the journal and that oil passage/squirter was pretty much just pumping it right out the side of the head. Doh!

Since I didn't replace them (i've had the cams on and off a few times since the rebuild) there was an excess of hondabond on the outside of the cam seal... making it oversized as well as out of round... So when I was torquing the cam caps down... it would pop right out (at an angle) and even when I held it in place while torquing... after I removed pressure it would slide right out...

What I did was use a razor blade and carefully... for over an hour and a few beers/ b.s.'ing w/ my friends who were over helping, scraped the old hondabond smooth with the seal and made it round and the correct O.D.

In the process I also gooped up the entire side of the head/block seam with hondabond for good measure... i mean i may as well zip-tie and duct tape it too now just to be safe :-P

I'm going to give it a whirl today now that everything has cured and after I change the fuel filter and oil I will come back and let the thread know if it's fixed or not.

Colin

iTrader: (1)

Glad you got it worked out! Funny cause as I was reading my first thought was "I'd check my cam seals and any other seals on the head". It's been my experience that oil leaks from the head gasket are very uncommon. What is common however is oil leaking from a seal on the head, running down the head and pooling where the head and block meet. Once the oil gets to that point it'll run all the way around the engine making it very hard to see where the oil originated.

I currently had a top end leak and it was doing this, stuffed paper towels at each corner of where the head/block meet and found it's coming from the front of the motor. I'm hoping it's the same cam seals that caused your problem and that I can get them replaced this weekend.

VTECIntegra9

Yep - I drove to the event (about 3hrs or so) and back and ran all day in the rain :-( But only minimal wetness. I found a very little bit on the backside of the engine (by trans) and a very little bit on the timing belt side but no drips :-)

It was great only working on the car for 10 minutes to change brake pads and not having to worry about anything else. It took me longer the zip-tie my splash-guard in the gas-station before we hit the road w/ only one arm reaching down into the bumper.

red_crx

iTrader: (2)

good stuff, glad it was an easy fix.

Billy Elliot

Had that happen at the 100 Acre Wood Rally with a competitor's B18 head'd B20 block motor. He pulled into the Park Expose and was leaking a whole lot of oil. We pulled off the valve cover and timing belt cover to confirm it was the same situation as you. Pressed it back in, filled her up with oil. They ended up snapping an axle later on in the day, but at least they weren't leaking oil.