markertoo

I am always thinking about ways to go faster, and I just happened to see a car for sale on another site, running an 11" Wilwood setup. I have not been a huge fan of 4-piston caliper kits (usually overkill, as we all know, wheel fitments, etc....), but then it popped into my head - why not use the 2-piece rotor on a 4 bolt car, with a modded ITR caliper and bracket?

I searched and I couldn't find, so I am asking the bunch of guys who seem to be the most knowledgable here on H-T, in the Road Racing. I apologize if it has been covered before, and if it hasn't, I will do some digging to look into it.

Has anyone used this setup? ITR calipers (machined 3mm to move caliper and bracket towards the outside of the car), and the Wilwood 11" rotor and hat combination.

Discuss.....

FlewByU352

I too have seen the 11" 2 piece setup. I haven't searched the Wilwood catalog book for proper rotors though. Most Wilwood kits use a rotor that is not nearly as thick as the 11.1" ITR rotors though. If you find one that is around .9" in thickness I'd be curious to try it.

markertoo

That is about the only issue I can think of. The thickness on the 2-piece rotors is .81", where an ITR rotor (and I assume an SR-V/Prelude VTEC) is about 25mm. Still, the 10.2" rotor is .82" thick, so a similar thickness, and these SHOULD be a better rotor.

If the off-the-shelf rotor hats were not the right offset, one could make a run of hats, so that the caliper brackets did not need to be machined, and they could be reasonable enough. I think that this would be an interesting experiment. I would probably run a pad shim behind the pad, to make sure that the piston didn't pop out when the pads got thinner.

From what I have found so far:
Rotor - 160-5840 - 11.0" x .81"
Hat - 170-8643 (or the 170-10199 for more offset, need to open up the bore)
Hardware - 230-8991

donut.

I think Fastbrakes and Stoptech have 2 piece rotors. I believe they use an ITR sized rotor, and a 4x100 hat so that they're already offset the 3mm's. They're expensive.

If you're cheap like me, use a mini cooper rotor which is identical to the itr rotors demensions, but in 4x100. They're already offset 3mm's and hubcentric.

JW racing

Tell us more about the car and activities you do with it and we can guide you in the right direction. Are you having cooling issues, or just want a different rotor?

I think the 2 pc rotors are too thin to use on an oem caliper, just use a good directional standard rotor since there really is not much benefit to getting a 2 pc rotor.

You want to go faster but do not like brake upgrades.. Brake kits are not overkill unless its a pure street car that sees little to no track time. Did you know braking is one of the few areas you can make the most time in? You can shave several seconds off per lap by braking in the shortest zone possible and staying on throttle longer, and you can do that by upgrading the brakes to have better braking power.

markertoo

I apologize for the lack of the number of posts, but do not let that suggest a lack of experience. I have been running Solo/Autocross since the early/mid- '80s, went Firehawk in the early '90s, and have run in a number of road race series - Enduroseries, Grand-Am, IT, and Regional Road racing. I have been hired by a number of companies to do driving instruction, and I do driver coaching. In my day job, I have worked for distributors for racing brake pads, and I am currently an official with a Pro Road Racing series.

My issue with a 4, 6, or 8-piston brake kits is that brakes do not slow you down, the tires do. If there is an issue with fade, fix the issue - pads, fluid, air ducting, better or bigger rotors, and stop the caliper from twisting about its axis. Multi-piston calipers do not make sense for 99.5% of cars, and are not necessary, even for occasional track day cars. They also induce other issues - wheel fitments, cost, and pad availability.

I am not currently racing, but I have a car that sees 40K miles of street use, and about 15-20 track days per year. I am always interested in possible upgrades, and their relative value, regardless of whether the car is a race car, track car or a street car. Currently the car is a 99 Civic HB, ITR swap w/a few mods, coilovers, and the usual safety items needed for track days. For sessions that are less than 20-30 minutes long, the 10.2" rotor setup is enough. Longer sessions require an upgrade, and since I am putting on 11" rotors in the near future, I was curious if the Wilwood setup was worth investigating or not.

People buy Big Brake Kits WAY too often. I sell them, and would not suggest them until they are needed, which is pretty far down the line for mods.

I was asking a group of people online who seemed to be both the most informed and knowledgable on H-T (I don't go into the other forums), and the most humble. Should I change that opinion?

markertoo

I thought they were more like 10.85", but that is only .125" undersize in radius. Is the hub/rotor locating diameter the same, not only the wheel hub bore? If so, I have a friend who has developed 2-piece rotors for his MINIs, but he may be using JCW size (11.6").

Sorry for the tone in my last reply, but nowhere did I talk about cost of rotors and being cheap. If there is value in doing something, I will do it.

known

iTrader: (1)

Brian at Fast brakes makes a 2 piece rotor for the itr setup and it is pretty expensive but maybe worth the cost depending.

donut.

Theres different model mini's. I use the ones off a '08 mini cooper.

mini rotors

itr rotors

markertoo

Hmm. This is the Prelude rotor, and I do see that that the MINI rotor is 3mm different in offset. I am assuming it is the correct way, but I cannot remember if the caliper bracket is clamped to the knuckle by the bolt, or if it is threaded, and the knuckle is the non-threaded part. I will look tonight. After going over it in my head, I am pretty sure that this rotor is offset in the correct direction - GREAT find.

Now, are you saying that DBA now makes that 2007+ MINI rotor in a 2-piece? I have not found that, and have an email into my contact at DBA. This would be pretty cool, and if it not too pricey, it would be a very good use for all of us who may want to upgrade to an 11" setup, and this avoids the need to re-drill rotors, and machine the caliper bracket.

Black R

Subscribing bc I'm interested in an itr sized rotor in 5lug to save weight.
For this reason, I don't mind going 4pot as well.

essex

Is there anything here that would work http://www.colemanracing.com/Brakes-...0ASC&c=107&p=1

Fink29

Let me start off by saying I havent tracked my car but ..............
I am running

93 Si

Front
Integra knuckle
2 Piston Gs legend Caliper
280mm Mini rotors 11"
23T Caliper Bracket
No machine work needed

Rear
ep3 10.9 rotors and calipers

dbang003

good information in here so far. i will be looking to upgrade my fronts on a 92 CX. right now i'm just running the stocks with HP Plus pads for autox shake down runs, but they won't hold up finally get comfortable with the car to do a track day.

found some info in this old thread that might be useful, but i'm sure it's been seen b4

https://honda-tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes-54/caliper-bracket-interchangability-2677539/

-Drew

exgr

i've thought about something similar for the longest time... wanting an affordable 2 piece rotor for stock 262mm/10.3" or ITR 280mm/11.0" setups. $50 replacement rotors, and a light weight hat to save some weight.

for whatever reason 2 piece rotors for Honda's are $$$. now that more and more ppl are doing rr/ax this product make a lot of sense.

VTECIntegra9

i wish I would have known about these mini rotors earlier.... already machined my brackets on the legend 2-pot calipers.... so re-drilled lude rotors is what I must deal with :-(

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

You can also use Legend single pot calipers 23T(23T brackets), and mini rotors.
No machining.

20CiviC02Si

iTrader: (3)

Hmmmm..... I am looking into upgrading to the ITR calipers on the EM1 sometime later this year. And seeing that the 08+ mini cooper rotors are almost identical makes me more intrigued than ever!

skylinecx1212

anyone here used itr 11.1 rotor on the wilwood dynalite caliper?

markertoo

I do think that the benefits are going to be small in the use of the 2-piece rotor, but every little bit helps. I might be able to source some 11" MINI 2-piece rotors, and I will work on that.

Still, it is quite nice that we no longer have to 1 - re-drill the Prelude rotors, and 2 - no longer have to machine the caliper bracket.

I had never thought about using the DX knuckle with the 10.2" rotors, and ITR calipers, but that is interesting if one wants to slowly upgrade. You would have to re-drill rotors, and change knuckles once you did go all the way to 11".

To VTECIntegra - you could buy some brackets only, when you have to replace the rotors next time (and use MINI ones). This would avoid your machining costs on the rotor, and be better long-term. Rock Auto has them for $15 each.

92integraVTECgsr

I've used both the Prelude rotors re-drilled and am now currently using the 07 Mini Cooper rotors with non-machined brackets.

I use them on my dedicated Integra track car. I run Carbotech XP12F/XP10R.

This brake setup for track use is solid. I will be adding brake ducting to keep them cooler during w2w racing starting june (currently doing TT).

Only downside to the Mini rotors are that they are thinner meaning they can't take as much heat.

I have a stock pile of prelude rotors and will continue to use them after I can get another set of brackets machined. The last set were off and ended up killing a set of XP10 front pads.

If you're using this car for street and occasional HPDE, I would just use mini rotors and stock 23T brackets with some decent pads (HP+, HPS, or whatever you want).

This setup will give you more braking power then you will need. Just make sure you use the right brake pad.

dbang003

I'm starting with a 92 Civic HB Cx (9.5" rotor). Can i do 23T brackets (machined), ITR calipers and Mini rotors? Looking for an 11" setup for 15" wheels. also are ITR calipers the same as Accord Wagon like i've read?

is it worth going to the legend dual piston caliper? if so will the same 23T backet and mini rotors work?

edit: i think this article got me on the right path.

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t.../photo_33.html

i wasn't sure what side of the bracket to shave, but the pics helped out (haven't had time to go and look on my own car to figure it out...having a 6 month old owns me!).

Sorry for thread jacking, but i hope some of this info helps out in some way.

Thanks.

JW racing

If I recall minis have a huge brake cooling issue and I read that BMW intended for the minis to have brake ducts but shipped most of them without them. Some of the newest ones come with ducting now.

markertoo

I am not sure I would agree. I tracked one for a while, and I have a few friends who race them. I would say that in general, they have a system that is more track-capable than most Japanese cars. Change the usual stuff - pads, fluid and possibly lines, and you are ok. They definitely are more European in that way - BMWs and Porsches seem to have pretty capable systems in general.

Any Japanese car I have tracked or raced usually has an issue or 2 - taper wear, the caliper not clamping the pad correctly, and twisting about the pads, or too small of a rotor. At least with a European car, if you do have the caliper twisting, you can put bushings in the caliper.

Does anyone have a method of stopping the twisting of calipers in a Honda?

I do find it interesting that you feel they have a poor braking system, in comparison to a Honda. A Honda has GREAT feel, but you run into a wall, performance-wise.

To dbang: I have learned even more compatibilities over the last few days, and I think that if you use the CX/DX knuckle, you will end up having a caliper and bracket that will fit over the Integra 10.2" rotor. If you use the Integra/EX knuckle, the same parts will fit over an 11" rotor. (still needed is the machining, if you want to use a Honda - Integra/EX 10.2" or a Prelude 11.1" rotor)

The only time you do not need to machine a bracket is when you are using the EX/'teg knuckle, with those brackets, and the MINI rotor.

914Racer

Want to stop the caliper from twisting, replace it with a proper racing caliper. That is one benefit of going with a fixed multi piston caliper. The sliding caliper is a nightmare to keep from twisting and flexing. (BTW Dynalites don't count as good calipers.)

The ITR set up is heavy. Significantly heavier than a good race setup. If I remember right the ITR setup on my CRX weighs around 15lbs. At the time I built my setup I weighed some 6pot Wilwood Prolite 6Rs and lightweight rotors I had laying around they were about half the weight of the ITR stuff.

If you use the lighter knuckles you are stuck with the smaller wheel bearing and hubs. Not a recipe for a durable track setup. You want the biggest wheel bearing and hub setup to help durability. Plus it helps brake feel if the hubs aren't flexing around knocking the pads back off the rotors.