s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

Hi all,

I know that pads for track days, HPDEs, Autox, and such has been covered at length here, but I couldn't find much on pads for endurance racing hondas. (chumpcar, Lemons)

chassis is a 90 civic with Acura Legend front brakes and integra rear disc brakes.

My criteria is pretty simple:

-Good high heat friction/little to no fade
-Good pad/rotor wear (light enough to allow for completion of 24 hour race on one set, hopefully this is actually possible)
-Would like a race pad that is made to operate at high temperatures
-Good modulation
-Good high heat bite - decent cold bite, but not as important.
-Budget limit on this is $150-$175

Anyway, This being said, here are the pads I am considering. At this point i'm thinking mostly about fronts, but rear recommendation in conjunction with fronts is also appreciated

Hawk DTC-60
Hawk HT-10
Hawk HP+ - I heard these don't last long.
Hawk Blue
Carbotech XP10
Porterfield R4-E
Cobalt friction - not sure which compound is most apropriate, advice?

Anyways, hopefully some people here have experience endurance racing.

Thanks!

The Destroyer

Im not sure but I wanna say you go through more than 1 set of pads on something like that.

s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

I know there are people who do a whole race on 1 set.

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

There is no "one pad" will last 24 hours.
Honestly I have never seen a set of pads go bad in an endurance race through normal wear and tear, but im sure it has happened.

Brake pads go bad for a number of reasons, most of them driver and mechanical.
Its a consumable item, kind of you have to expect and plan for a failure.

Its a lemons car so your budget is limited. Get the best bang for your buck.

All the pads you list are good in their own right for auto x and RR
Pick one and run with it.
What you read about what pads everyone is using is good information.
Dont over think this.
Look at the drivers and their experience levels.
Find a easy cheap pad that isnt going to eat your rotors.
You have to be there at the end to win the race and toasted rotors wont get you there.

s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

Dirty19, I'm not just going to 'pick one and run with it' without first getting some input from those who have experience running them on hondas.

I realize brake pads go bad, I have a spare set of street/track pads and stock pads and rotors for each that will be backups, but I want to get a set of race pads to squeeze every advantage out of this car that I can get.

92integraVTECgsr

I have run Hawk HP+ for track days and hard daily driving. One set will last me a year. 15,000 miles total. Rougly 600-800 track miles. They held up great on the track.

I just switched to Carbotech XP12 and the bite is a lot more, but so is the wear.

My friends run Carbotech XP10 on their chump car. No 24 hours yet. Just 8 hours i believe and they are still on the same set i think.

But you also need to take into consideration if the track is going to be brake intensive (ie. lots of high speed stopping).

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

We all run hondas, and what you have read here in other posts is good information.
Im my experience in endurance racing is the pads have never gone bad.
Not an inexpensive lemons car but full race civics and integras.
In going to and participating in the 25 hours of thunderhill as a crewmember, and seeing cars come off the track for brake issues its always been a rotor or caliper but seldom the pad.
If a pad did go bad it was because something else was wrong in the system. warped, cracked, or broken rotors.
Plenty of drivers have answered this question, and given opinions of their favored pads.
What else they tried, and what they found to be their experience with it.
Not all brakes pads have been covered but a good deal of them have been, be it hawk, porterfield, cobalts etc.

If you want someone to say use these (brand X ) or what driver X says about each pad then your question is redundant. There is sufficient input to sway you one way or the other.
Its been covered in the brake posts.

There is no one correct pad just like there is no correct suspension set up. (we had a lengthy conversation with a poster about what, and why we liked Koni and Ground control)
What we use in our cars is based on budget, reliability, personal likes etc.
Some drivers are abusive on brakes where others drive the hell out of a car, and hardly touch them. It depends on the driver and their driving style.
You in the lemons race will have many drivers.

Prepare the car well. Go through the rotors,lines, calipers and make sure they are all clean and good working order.
So I say go back read those posts again, make yourself a short list. and decide.

20CiviC02Si

iTrader: (3)

Hey on the 24 hour lemons car. I could be wrong but brake pads and rotors are not included i the budget. You won't get very far with $150-$200 budget. That's like 1.5 sets of pads. I would consider getting hawk blues due to their cost, they're a bit rough on rotors but not as bad as others out there.

Good initial bite and even braking. A good consistent pad.

You'll probably need at least 4 sets for fronts and probably like 2 for the rear depending on rear brake bias. You should always have spares just in case, especially with it being a 24 hour enduro.

Just my advice!


PS: I can tell you for a fact that HP+ pads won't last even an hour out there. Just 3 sessions at Road America at 20 minutes a pop mine were toast!

rice_classic

The best way to get the longest life out of your pads for such an event?...

1: Biggest rotors you can run
2: Get Pads that are designed for a car 500-1000lbs heavier than yours (example: Cobalt XR1 instead of XR2s)
3: Keep them cool! Brake ducting will go a LONG way.


My experiences says: Stay away from Hawk Blues and Carbotech for what you need. I've never gotten any reasonable life out of Hawk Blues or Carbotechs. Performance sure, but long life, never.

Cobalt XR1 or Raybestos st-43 should give you a lot of life, especially the ST-43. I have never used Porterfields so no feedback there.

I crewed for an E3 class CRX than ran a 12 hour enduro with stock rotors (9.2") and ST-43 pads. This was a prepped race car in a hard fought race as opposed to Chump car or Lemons car. After the event the ST-43 pads still had 1/2 or more of their life left.

Ecugrad

On our Lemons Prelude we have ran the Hawk HP+ on the split day 14 hour events and the Porterfield ST-45 for the true 24 hour events.

In our first two races, the HP+ were fine but as the car and drivers get faster, we have found that the HP+ will only work with a new set at the start of each day.

There is another Lemons brake pad thread in this forum, search it out, there was lots of good info in there.

Kris

http://949racing.com/carbotech-integ...kes-97-01.aspx

I came across that information a week ago, I think it can help you make a decision if you went with carbotechs..the rp2's look like the pad you'll need since they're specifically designed for endurance racing.

pasaunde

Gutted 92 VX hatch using stock calipers/rotors
With HT-10s
Lasted 2 lemons races (~700 miles) @ CMP
4 HPDE Weekends
3 TT Weekends

Results may differ depending on the drivers/track/tires... etc.

slammed_93_hatch

what motor is in the car?

If it has a ITS/H2 or "bigger" motor i'd suggest Cobalt XR1, or Raybesto's ST41.


Warning on the Raybestos, they leave a NASTY transfer layer once cooled down, IE coming into the pits to do a re-fuel/driver change. You need to REALLY use the brakes to get this away, if your drivers don't do this it will just worse and worse and it will feel like the whole car is going to shake apart.

So if you have some very good/disciplined drivers the Raybestos aren't a problem, but you need to make sure the drivers are aware of this and know what to do.

We had a car get shaken apart because drivers weren't aware of this, and didn't do as the crew instructed.

rice_classic

This. I still like the ST43 though.

I've only once heard of fellow racers talk about the transfer layer and I didn't pay much attention to it since I don't ever experience this problem with the Cobalts. A fellow competitor of mine uses the ST43's and just accepts the fact that his rotors easily warp (yet mine almost never do) and he says "you just have to brake through it and not let if phase you." It turns out that "braking through it" is doing what you say it does and gets that transfer layer off or evens it out, returning those rotors back to a race-able condition.

Upon further research he should drag is cold brake pads against the rotors while driving down to pregrid which will help strip away the transfer layer with the abrasiveness of the cold race pads.

slammed_93_hatch

H4/ITA car, yep ST43s are great. But we found with the ITS/H2 cars it isn't enough pad.


And yep rotor's don't warp, i think stoptech did a nice article on it.

And yes that is a very good idea, when i ran them i would LFB from grid till about half way through the out lap. It is very obvious when the pad comes in.

It's nothing like the cobalt that just works from ~0 degree to +1500 degrees.

topdog

iTrader: (1)

On our chump car 93 civic hb. We run carbotech xp8 and factory shoes We've done a 5 hour and a 9 hour plus a track day using the same pad. With about 6mm of pad left on them. They have been great and I think they will last 24 hours no problem. I am not sure of the weigh of the car but figure 2000 or under. Brake setup is from a prelude which is 11.1 I beleave and rear are stock drum with then barley there to work. Easier to change pads than shoes if needed.

JL01

ST43 isn't enough pad in terms of friction and bite?

Battosai84

What about the Pagid RS-29, should work as well.

Never used them for endurance races, but they are actually designed for it.

KIWI

Paul,
Remember the 25 hrs at Thunder Hill 2009 we never changed our imported DIXEL pads throughout the entire race. Admittedly we had some down time changing a Gearbox , then three hours later we had to change an engine but at the finish of the race we had plenty of pad left.
We will probably run a two car Kiwi Team this year so we will know for sure at the end of the 2011 race whether the DIXEL pads are the way to go. Are you up for crew again?

Kiwi

dirty19

iTrader: (1)

Absolutely! Im in!
Let me know when we start construction and preparation.
Those pads and rotors were excellent!
If we can keep the powerplants and trannys from going south we can win!

slammed_93_hatch

We would over heat them, and they would fade.

FSRslug

We ordered HT-10s. We'll give them a try at Road America next weekend.

mattEG

We've run a few lemons / chump races and have great luck with Hawk DTC-60's and generic slotted cryo rotors. Go through about 75% of the pad throughout the weekend but never experience fade or any adverse brake issues. Rotors are good for two weekends. Best brake setup I've ever driven on a civic.

fabtoys

BRAKES are safety and are not in the $500 budget can spend $5000 if you want!

Slow*Jim

Check out CL RC6E pads - they're made for enduros

http://www.essexparts.com/shop.html