fleabag

A k20 would get **** fuel economy. A CRX Si got acceptable fuel economy because it was light weight and had a reasonable sized engine. There is no way Honda could sell in the next 10 years a car with a K20 that wasn't a hybrid what with the CAFE requirements. What made the CRX great was that it was a vehicle that could appeal to many needs but this pos appeals to nobody. You want a stupid K20, go pay the money to drop it in but frankly that's a waste of money and time.

HeadSpinner

That is true, but I was looking for a 2 door, stick and averaged around 40mpg. I had one choice and only one. I've had it one year and already tacked on 17k miles. It is fun to drive, handles corners fine, enough power to suit my driving needs (up to 150hp now with added components) and gets 40+ on the hwy. If I wasn't concerned on the mpg, I would have probably bought something else that had a larger engine. A lot larger selection in that field. I used to drive an Alfa Romeo Spider. Wasn't concerned on mpg then. Now, the CRZ is a perfect car for my needs.

People comment all the time how nice it is. Even the police officer who pulled me over commented what a nice car this is... still gave me a ticket...

Axatax

Yeah, but the thing is, Honda accomplished this 20+ years ago.

The Koreans and Ford are getting even better mileage now on just gas in the same profile vehicle.

fleabag

I wouldn't be TOO sure about that as real world testing has shown those vehicles are getting WORSE fuel economy than the EPA numbers. The fact that the vehicles get worse fuel economy in real world driving indicates they've been gaming the EPA fuel economy tests vs. Honda & Toyota who don't appear to have been doing that.

xracer6

I hear that Fleabag, I think it's great that Honda and Toyota have not been gaming the tests, only thing that sucks is ON PAPER they don't seem to have an advantage but in real world scenarios that is quite different.

Bakemono36

Yeah, both Ford and Hyundai have gotten busted lying about the MPG of their vehicles.

SergEK

I disagree, on many things
First and foremost the K20 is far from stupid - one of the best 4cyl platforms of all time
Secondly Honda will sell a 2.0L 4cyl with MORE power than the current K20 lineup we know AND they will meet all CAFE restrictions - Case in point turbo 2.0 280hp global 4cyl engine platform

Fuel economy has never been an issue for Honda engines as they are some of the most efficient engines on earth - their emissions however when pushed to their performance limits becomes more of an issue as well as octane rating here in the states

Meeting rising crash standards (weight) while meeting power demands (emissions) became a tough battle - lesser OEMs turned to turbo power long ago as their engineering teams didnt quite have the chops of Honda teams. But even Honda has had to let go of the NA beast motors in search of lower emissions, higher torque values and higher overall hp to maintain acceptable acceleration standards of larger and larger "compact" cars

The rise of the turbo 1.3,1.6 and 2.0L motors will have Honda creating class leading vehicles both in performance and in fuel economy where they have always been major players.

Weight is a HUGE burden on mpg at highway speeds - lowering the cd is one thing - but lightening the car would do wonders for everything we ask the car to do - mpg/acceleration/braking etc...but the Feds keep upping the standards which means more and more weight being added to cars in the interest of "safety" - heavier cars end up accelerating slower, braking longer and eating more fuel all else being equal - lighter cars would be " safer" in most real world environments where you seek to avoid a crash in the first place rather than default to worst case scenario for car design.

Building tanks that cant dodge a collision in time, crumple like an coke can and accelerate like dial up seems to be the Fed's answer -

Honestly we as consumers should be allowed to make our own choices and buy the cars OEMs build - use a star rating for crash worthiness against a set standard and leave it alone - if you want to drive a car with a one star rating - so be it - people ride motorcycles too.

People are smart enough to choose what they prefer - if its a 2200lb 300+hp CRZ that gets 3 stars on the crash rating - so be it - at least we could CHOOSE to drive awesome cars rather than being stuck with a watered down compromise ridden sub par attempt at cool courtesy of the Feds.

The car is awesome for the rules it has to follow - given a clean slate imagine this thing at 2000-2200lbs with even just a 220-240hp K20 with a warranty - sell like hot cakes

fleabag

But the car weighs a lot not because of its hybrid drivetrain but because its relatively stiff chassis. Insight weighed 1800lbs and that was WITH hybrid drivetrain. I just don't see how a car can meet CAFE fuel economy requirements with a K20 if it's not a hybrid as it already does a **** job with a breathless 1.5L engine and hybrid system.

Crash safety has absolutely zero to do with the weigh of these vehicles as there are plenty of vehicles getting high marks but weigh much less than the CRZ.

SergEK

You are focused on NA K20s which must be geared more aggressively to provide the torque for adequate acceleration.

A 2.0L turbo engine can make mountains more torque at much lower engine speeds - the torque allows the car to get up to speed without using too many revs and providing for relaxed cruising revs in taller gears - with the increased torque you can easily stay in gear, mash the throttle, boost and accelerate without having to resort to down shifting 2 gears

The longer gearing and more relaxed power delivery will add to greater mpg - its why turbo diesels are becoming more and more popular - Mercedes and BMW have both invested heavily into turbo diesel tech because they realize to move a huge car without much fuss takes a huge motor or a heavily boosted small motor - enter the high boost 3L 6cyls for mid to full size cars

Steady state mpg will have low revs, high torque under boost and cyl deactivation under light/zero throttle conditions - the US OEMs are leaning towards larger engines with cyl deactivation since they are tied at the hip to the small blocks - but you will see a rise in turbo 3L 6cyl motors from all OEMs

Honda knows turbos and small engines so while I am sad we wont see amazing high rev'ing 9k+ screamers anytime soon - a high boost 8k redline boosted Honda with a warranty is probably a much more practical and fun street car - mountains more midrange, better mpg and still plenty of power on 91 pee water gasoline.

Be interesting to see just how reliable turbo Hondas will be - Honda owners tend to beat on their cars so I wonder what fails safes they will have built in to keep the motors healthy in the hands of your average driver - turbo timer, larger oil pans etc...

The density of the CRZ is more than likely for a target buyer - more sound deadening, thicker materials etc...all part of keeping the car quiet, comfortable etc...the rise in weight is also a by product of crash standards - compare an EG 4 door to an FA5 and you will see just how much larger, heavier and stronger the FA5 is - but it also takes alot more power to move vs the lighter chassis - ALL cars have gotten heavier with the added safety features - count how many air bags a new car has - realize when cars had NONE - also notice how engine bays are smaller and tighter to the firewall - structural changes/beefing up = more weight

HeadSpinner

Fleabag and Xracer6 quoted it right. It the real world, I've never driven a car that achieved the quoted mpg quoted until now. The CRZ is listed around 37-38 mpg Hwy. I average 43+ Hwy. Both city and hwy combined average what Honda list as straight hwy only.
The other issue to look at is today's standards forced on the automakers. Sure, 20 years ago they may have achieved 40mpg on gas alone, but our lovely tree loving environmentalist's who believe we should still be driving a horse pulled carriage and the oil companies demanding we use less oil so they can make more money per gallon of oil used have driven new auto's to where they are now.
I can get on the hwy going up an inclined ramp, be doing 70+ when merging on, just barely in 3rd gear and passing everyone else. If I wanted 250 hp. Hmmm... take the $20,000+ difference from a car that has such power, have a bigger engine installed and away I go... still paying less than a Lexas, Beamer, Audi, etc...
I can imaging living in Florida, figure I'd really be passing people there as that's the golf cart state... oops

HondaCRZY

If they look like that, I do not know why they are not selling.

tony_2018

If Honda plans to roll out the new civic si/type r with the turbo motor than I'm sure that the crz/fit will be having there new engines as well. Come guys keep the hope alive.

HondaCRZY

Even if there is no turbo motor, they should de-hybridize it and make an Si version with more power like they did with the Honda CRX