Scott Little

Ok just to start out I know there are many threads discussing b20 swaps and I have read most of them, I am just a little unclear about a few things. I have not purchased the 99 Sedan yet so I have not been able to eyeball things. Hopefully I get the car today.


I currently have my wifes car which is a 94 Civic coupe which I swapped in a B20 last year, the car runs amazing and is very fun to drive. The problem is that she owes over $1000 for registration plus it needs to be smogged. It needs misc parts like Windshield, driver fender, hood, rotors, rear disk swap passenger seat bracket and a working AC would be nice. We also wanted to upgrade it to a Sedan(would be considered a downgrade to many). The car is just not worth putting money into. The car has everything needed to do the B20 swap into the 1994 including Innovative mounts, full exhaust and the engine distributor has been wired to OBD1. p75 ECU I believe. The car has a manual LS transmission.


I should be able to pull the engine/transmission including engine side wire harness and drop it directly into the 99 Sedan. I was reading that I would need a OBD2 to OBD1 conversion harness for the ECU side. Is this all I will need as far as wiring?


How about the mounts? I think front engine mounts and transmission mounts are the same. How about transmission mount, driver side engine mount and rear mount. The posts were a little unclear. I am honestly not sure what mount I am using for the rear and engine side since they came on the engine, the engine side is an innovative and the transmission side I purchased an innovative manual mount. I am just trying to prepare a parts list ahead of time so I can order in advance. Remember the engine is a running B20 already in a EG so the LS parts are already installed.


How about the exhaust, I was looking and I may "May" be able to just bolt up the exhaust from the 94 Coupe. I am not 100% positive on that and hopefully someone can clarify, maybe I need a spacer somewhere since its a sedan?(Fitment : 92-95 Honda Civic DX/LX/EX 2/4dr models only. 96-00 Honda Civic EX models only. 99-00 Honda Civic Si Coupe models only.)


Any chance the Axels in the 99 will work or do I need to swap them from the 94?


Will the Radiator from the 94 fit the 99? I have a new radiator in the 94.


Just realized that I will most likely need to swap the LS Power steering pump, any chance I can use the one from the 99?


Is there anything else I should be concerned with?


Process.
-Disconnect Battery
-Disconnect main connectors on wire harness.
-*Remove Axel Nuts if axels need to be swapped
-Jack up car and place on jack Stands
-Disconnect exhaust at Cat/ maybe at downpipe.
-Remove B*tch pin from shift linkage. remove bolt from other shift linkage
-Remove Rims
-Remove Lower Ball Joints
-Drain Coolant/ transmission fluid.
-Remove bottom shock bolt to make clearance to remove Axels
-Remove Driver and Passenger side Axels
-Unbolt Clutch Slave Cylinder from Transmission but don't remove the lines
-Remove Header/manifold
-Disconnect ground wires, one on front radiator support, one on transmission and one on thermostat housing
-Disconnect fuel Line
-Disconnect Radiator hoses and heater core
-Unbolt AC Compressor but not the lines
-Remove Driver side front motor mount
-Unbolt Front transmission mount from transmission
-Unbolt Power steering pump if we can use the 99 one if not just leave it bolted and disconnect the power steering fluid lines and keep it bolted up.
-Remove all connections from Wire harness(OBD2) Don't forget the 10mm bolt under the intake manifold
-Bolt up cherry picker
-Unbolt Rear Motor mount from cross member
-Unbolt Transmission mount and Driver side engine mount
-Remove engine(Took me a total of about 4 hours to remove engine)(working on Jack stand's in a Tandem garage)


-Reverse steps
-Swap ECU including OBD1 Adapter


Start and Drive think about bolting the 94 back together or just scrapping it as is.


Any thoughts on the process?

tony_2018

You better check those guides again. I'm pretty darn show they have a list of parts needed, you can cross reference what you got and what you'll need.

Scott Little

Yea I have looked at the parts lists already, I just want to make sure my understanding is correct. Remember the basic needed LS parts are already installed.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

When you say the car needs to be smogged, are you talking about CA SMOG/BAR? Because if so, you're going to need a lot more than just the basics. You can't use an OBD1 ECU.

tony_2018

What basics? Swapping an LS into a 99 civic requires different parts. THAT SIMPLE.

So again, what basics are you referring to.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

People who think a sedan is a downgrade have never seen a grown-*** human being have to crawl into the back seat of coupe. Same amount of space but easier access to the rear is an upgrade for sure!

Most of the things you need are stock parts for a 99-00 Si. It's been a few years now, so I may be very slightly incorrect here and there, but I'll do my best from memory. Search for my build thread, all of the pics should still be up.

It will be easier to use a 96-00 harness honestly. The 92-95 harness terminates in tow pieces (terminated on the bay side) where the 96-00 passes through the firewall to the engine. If you plan to smog the thing you're going to want to be able to exist in OBD2 land at least for inspection time. You will need an adapter harness to plug your P75 ecu in.

You will need the rear "T-bracket" from a 99-00 Si. The front lowers will move over. You will also need the driver's side post mount. The stock one off of your D16 will work fine, or you can purchase the correct one from Innovative by itself. Trans mount will also work, reuse the bracket from the D16 again. When I first did my swap I retained all of the mounts from the Y7 and transferred them over to the B. Use a Del Sol VTEC or 99-00 Si AC bracket to retain the stock AC compressor/lines.

Exhaust is the same for all 92-95 Coupes/sedans, 96-00 EX coupes/sedans, and 99-00 Si coupes. The difference is the Y7's exhaust manifold, but that doesn't apply to you since you are swapping and therefore it will fit.

Swap them over.

Yep. I recommend a radiator from a 99-00 Si or from a Del Sol VTEC, it has the correct size outlets and is a dual core.

If you want to have power steering, use a 99-00 Si pump/bracket to avoid having to make a custom high pressure line. I used a 95 Integra pump and it wasn't a direct fit, had to swage one fitting onto another line to make it work and the pressure profiles have never been quite right. 96+ Integra pumps are slightly different, so I won't speak for them. I do not believe you will be able to use the single cam pump.



Nope. This is about as easy as a swap gets and it's been documented a billion times.

Buy the correct tool for dealing with the "bitch pin" and laugh at every dolt that has ever complained about it actually being a bitch to deal with.

Drop the engine out the bottom of the car, it's much easier than using a cherry picker (It's the way it went int at the factory!). You don't need to pop the upper ball joints to get the axles out, pop the lowers and set the knuckles back in place after you get the shafts out.

Scott Little

The 99 Coupe is registered until 2017 so that gives us some time. I think I will try to register the new car before I do that swap. I don't think I need to smog but just in case I do the old engine still runs it may be enough to get it past smog legally without playing any games.

Scott Little

Your losing me here Tony. If you are aware of some additional that I may need please do me a solid and let me know.
The B20 already has the following. I may have missed a few items but I have been running in a EG for about 6 months.
-LS intake manifold
-LS starter
-LS injectors
-LS Transmission mount
-LS Power steering Bracket
-LS Power steering Pump
-LS front engine mount
-LS Distributor(OBD1)
-LS Throttle Cable
-LS Fuel Rail
-LS IAT Sensor
-LS Transmission
-LS Flywheel
-LS Clutch
-P75(OBD1)
-Skunk 2 Throttle body along with thermal gaskets
-B Series header, test pipe and exhaust


I picked up the new Civic yesterday so next week I can take a good look at the engine bay and see if I can find any obvious differences.

Scott Little

spAdam

Thank you for the info. I will look for your post.


I will have to take a look at the wiring harness and see what you are talking about. I have owned 7 Hondas now and every one has had a engine harness that has connectors in the engine bay so that you can remove the engine without disconnecting all of the sensor wires and such.


I planned to use the harness that is currently on the engine and connect that to the plugs in the engine bay then use an OBD2 to 1 adapter on the ECU side. Maybe I should look for an OBD2 ECU and just make sure I am using a wire harness for OBD2. I wouldn't mind getting some more specific engine codes. I could be wrong but I believe I saw some OBD2 p75 ecu's out on Ebay. They were not too expensive and if it makes life easier I could just pick one up.


Is the T-bracket different from the one that works for the B20 in the 94? I honestly am not sure what bracket I currently have, it came already on the engine since it was in a Civic before I got the engine. I never needed to care about it. I will do a little more reading on the subject but any help would be appreciated.


I suppose I will just plan swap the axels and not worry about it. Are the inner splines different between the D Series manual and B Series Manual? I purchased a new passenger side axel for the 94 when I did the swap and used the original D series automatic Passenger side axel on the drivers side with the inner spline from the B Series transmission. I suppose it was a bit of a hack but it worked great since I could not seem to purchase the correct driver side axel.


I was thinking that maybe I could cheat and not drain the coolant and just swap over the radiator still connected but since the heater core hoses need to be disconnected I need to drain it anyway.


Power steering situation is still a bit of an unknown for me. With the 94 I was able to use the LS Pump and bracket and the stock high pressure line fit. I will inspect the 99 and see what the deal is. I am trying to stick the with b20/LS combo whenever possible to keep things simple.


I found that the B*tch Pin was not a huge deal using a correct size bolt, I tried to use a punch but with the limited space under the car the bolt was just easier. I think the trick was just hitting it really hard. haha


I have never dropped an engine out of the bottom of the car. I will look for some documentation regarding that but if you have any tips it would be appreciated.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

You don't have to disconnect the harness from the engine and leave it in the car, it's easy enough to unplug it at the ecu and pull it through the firewall. It just doesn't have the firewall connectors on the passenger side like the old ones do.

The T-bracket is specific to the cross member, so yes you will need to swap. 92-95 Civics, all Del Sols, and 94-01 Integras have one, 96-00 Civics have a different one.

This is the linkage pin tool:



I have the air hammer version. It takes about 3 hits to bump it in or out. It's always amused me, if you do a Google image search you'll see 100 different and more exotic ways to get it out when all you need is that mysterious stick. Go figure.

Scott Little

Well this harness situation sounds like a pain. I ordered the conversion harness but I guess I may need more. Should I use the 99 Harness? I'm not sure the harness on the 94 will come out easily. I could be wrong.


I have been reading and the posts online seem to point that the 99-00 Si bracket works for the 94 and 99. Maybe there is some misinformation out there. I was hoping since it mounted to the 94 it will mount in the 99. I don't mind ordering a new bracket if I need it.

Scott Little

15. T-bracket from any b-series 94-01 integra/92-97 del dohc vtec/99-00 civic si

Scott Little

The Linkage tool looks cool. I honestly didn't have much of an issue, you just need enough room to get a good swing from the hammer.


Dropping the motor from the bottom looks harder than pulling it from the top with the cherry picker. I don't have a jack that will lift the car high enough, I would end up in dangerous territory like most of the pictures online with wood blocks and such to get the car high enough. I bought the cherry picker when I did the original swap so no biggie. Ill stick with what I know, I have done at least 10 swaps using cherry pickers.

Scott Little

yea I see what you mean about the Wire Harness. It Certainly is a cleaner look. Can I use the OBD2 D16 harness with the B20? Maybe just extend a few wires? Then I can swap in a stock motor easily later on and just use the conversion harness for the ECU.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

That's probably your best bet. It's going to be more compatible with the engine than the 94 harness will be with the chassis. Also... that smog thing. You'll have to get it functioning with obd2 at some point if you want it to pass or want to sell it.

T-bracket goes with the car, period. Technically, you can swap the whole front suspension crossmember and associated hardware over from the 94 and then you can keep the same bracket, but that is an F-ton of extra work to avoid spending the money on a new bracket.

Scott Little

So I guess ill be using the harness from the 99. Should everything connect or do I need to extend some wires? Ill double check the distributor but I'm wondering about the wiring, its running on an OBD1 harness now so I'm not sure if I will need to convert it to work with the obd2 harness.


Ok the next step I guess is figuring out the AC. I currently have the front mount from a LS. Ill need to double check and see if it will work. I already have a pile of front mounts from the first swap but nothing that will work most likely if the LS does not work.

Scott Little

Looking for the AC bracket.
The P54 and P7J look identical in the pictures. Any clue what the difference is?


Looks like there is an aftermarket p54 on Amazon for 49$
(MMR B-SERIES SWAP A/C COMPRESSOR BRACKET 92-00 HONDA CIVIC 94-97 DEL SOL) I wonder if I can use the pulley from D Series
What a pain, trying to have PS and AC is more work. Ohh well I guess, do it right the first time and I wont be working on it once a week trying different parts.


The LS PS Bracket should still work I hope.


I looked at the High Pressure line on the 99 and it looks like the same connector for the LS PS pump, it looks like it should reach. Any thoughts on that? With the LS Pump and LS mount it lines up with the crank pulley so I'm hoping that I wont have to make any change there.

Scott Little

I got impatient and ordered the SI T Bracket from ebay and Del Sol compressor mount from amazon. Hopefully they work.

Scott Little

Found another issue. The Driver side mount will definitely not work.
I think I just need this, 50$ on Ebay.
Innovative Mounts 96-00 Honda Civic Driver Side Sub Bracket for B and D Series
The motor mount itself looks identical. Any thoughts?

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

I think the sub bracket is all you need but good luck finding one. I tried. Your stock d series post mount will work though.

Scott Little

Well I didn't expect to need to order 3 new mounts but I ordered all 3 and the OBD2 conversion harness. I think I'm covered. I'm excited to get this swapped into the new shell. I think by the time I get the registration sorted I will have the parts. "Should" be a quick and easy swap. About $200 Spent on parts


$54.50 Innovative Mounts 96-00 Honda Civic Driver Side Sub Bracket for B and D Series(Ebay)
$59.00 MMR B-SERIES SWAP A/C COMPRESSOR BRACKET 92-00 HONDA CIVIC 94-97 DEL SOL(Amazon)
$60.69 HONDA CIVIC SI B16 ENGINE MOTOR MOUNT SWAP T BRACKET(Ebay)
$23.99 Wild-us OBD2A to OBD1 ECU Jumper Conversion Harness Adapter(Amazon)

Scott Little

Noticed another issue. The Injectors are different on the OBD2 harness.
I went ahead and ordered
$25 OBD2 to OBD1 FUEL INJECTOR CONVERSION HARNESS(Ebay)
I think I could just swap the ones from the D16 but I know the ones on the B20 are working great.


Also I went to register today and found out that I needed to smog the car, I guess you need to smog on any transfer of title. Those bastards making things difficult. Luckily I waited until after I had the registration before I was going to start work. Guess I need to swap the O2 sensor and pray the motor passes smog before it blows up.

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

What state are you in?

Scott Little

Ca

spAdam

iTrader: (1)

Smog before if you can. From what I understand it's just a visual & plug in check for 00+, but you're planning to run an obd1 ecu so you have no chance once the swap is done.