REBUILDING THE LUDE FOR BOOST
10-06-2016, 03:51 PM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
REBUILDING THE LUDE FOR BOOST
HI GUYS WELL LIKE THE TITTLE SAYS AM REBUILDING MY 97 PRELUDE FOR BOOST AM NOT AN EXPERT BUT I BEEN DOING A LOT OF RESEARCH BUT I STILL HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR U GUYS OUT THERE I HOPE YALL CAN HELP ME AND I HOPE THIS THREAD HELP SOME ONE AS WELL SO MY QUESTION NOW ITS I HAVE THE ENGINE OUT AND ITS ALL TAKEN APART LIKE PISTONS ARE OUT ETC... WHAT DO I NEED TO DO WHEN I TAKE IT TO THE MACHINE SHOP THIS GUY TOLD ME I SHOULD GET IT BORED I THINK ITS CALLED A LEASE .5MM MORE SO I CAN PUT SOME NEW PISTONS SOME RODS AND ALL THAT I DONT WANT A HELL OF BOOST BECAUSE I WANT IT TO BE MY WEEKEND RIDE I GUESS WE CAN SAY BUT YES I WANT TO BE ABLE TO GO ON THE STREETS WITH OUT TOO MUCH STRESS AND WELL AM PLANNING ON KEPT THE CAR SO SPENDING MONEY ON IT ITS NOT A BIG DEAL I WILL IF I HAVE TO BUT I DONT WANT TO BUY THINGS I DONT NECESSARY HAVE TO OKAY SO THE CAR AS IT ITS NOW HAS 190,592 MILLAGE I WAS SMOKING A LOT IT WAS BURNING THE OIL MUCH SO THATS WHY I DECIDE TO START THIS BUILD PLUS I WANTED TO TURBO IT ANYWAYS BUT ABOUT THE TURBO I HAVE NO IDEA YET I WANT TO RUN MAY BE 10 PSI THE MOST IDK HONESTLY IF ITS A LOT OR NOT BUT WELL ITS KINDA MY GOAL AND I WANT TO CHANCE THE MOST I CAN INSIDE THE ENGINE SINCE I GOT IT OUT AND EVERYTHING I WANT TO CHANGE OIL PUMP WATER PUMP TIMING BELTS VALVES STRUTS AND SPRINGS ALL THAT THE CAMSHAFTS THE PULLEYS IDK ABOUT THE INTAKE YET BUT MAY BE ILL DO THAT LATER BUT YEAH THE PISTONS FOR LITTLE BIGGER ONES AND RODS AND OF COURSE PISTON RINGS AND ALL THE IGNITION CABLES AM NOT RUNNING THE AC NO MORE TO THATS OUT AND IDK ABOUT THE POWER STEARRING YET I MAY TAKE IT OUT TOO BUT WHAT U GUYS THINK I SHOULD DO ALL COMMENTS ARE WELCOME IDEAS IDK I WANT TO DO THIS BUILD BECAUSE SINCE I BOUGH THE CAR ITS BEEN ALWAYS MY DREAM TO TUNED IT AND ONE MORE THING MY ENGINE ITS THE H224A MY TRANNY ITS THE M2Y4 NON LSD THATS ONE OF MY QUESTIONS TOO I WANT TO MAKE IT LSD SO BAD BUT IDK AM CONFUSED ABOUT THE RATIOS IDK WHATS BETTER FOR THE TURBO I WAS THINKING MAY BE I CAN GO WITH THE M2B4 THATS AN LSD TRANNY BUT AM NOT SURE OR SHOULD I JUST KEPT MY STOCK ONE? WELL GUYS I HOPE I GET SOME ANSWERS ILL KEPT THIS UPDATED THANKS!!!
10-07-2016, 08:05 AM
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: REBUILDING THE LUDE FOR BOOST
This may apply if you want BOOST!
And it is cheaper and takes away LIMIT CUTOFF !
H224A has LMA installed which means they have a Valve spring that is different than the previous models which can be renewed as it is with previous.
Previous models can be upgraded with current LMA'S
I have adjusted my 99 Honda Prelude SH several times to the min spec.
I always hit the limits and had Valve bounce with the limit kicking in.
I now have adjusted them to the largest gap advised and it sounds like a diesel truck! BUT!
I do not hit the limit and go over and get better high range performance.
If you want no ticking use the minimum limit if you want performance use the maximum and sound like a diesel truck!
I don't like the noise but LUV the performance!
Good Luck from Vancouver, Canada!
And it is cheaper and takes away LIMIT CUTOFF !
H224A has LMA installed which means they have a Valve spring that is different than the previous models which can be renewed as it is with previous.
Previous models can be upgraded with current LMA'S
I have adjusted my 99 Honda Prelude SH several times to the min spec.
I always hit the limits and had Valve bounce with the limit kicking in.
I now have adjusted them to the largest gap advised and it sounds like a diesel truck! BUT!
I do not hit the limit and go over and get better high range performance.
If you want no ticking use the minimum limit if you want performance use the maximum and sound like a diesel truck!
I don't like the noise but LUV the performance!
Good Luck from Vancouver, Canada!
10-07-2016, 10:37 AM
#3
I live under a rock
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Purple Prelude, DE
Posts: 11,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: REBUILDING THE LUDE FOR BOOST
I can't even read that bro..... my eyes hurt.
Re-format and check the forum/FAQ in this sub-forum specifically... 100% sure whatever you need to know is in there.
Re-format and check the forum/FAQ in this sub-forum specifically... 100% sure whatever you need to know is in there.
10-07-2016, 12:25 PM
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10-08-2016, 12:08 PM
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: REBUILDING THE LUDE FOR BOOST
guys i just found out yesterday that am going to need a new tranny i was cleaning all the parts and i sow this big o hole on the housing of the tranny so i go ahead and break it open and everything seems to be fine actually but some how the gears where the cv axels get together some how it over spin or came out of place and it hit the housin so i had lots of aluminum pieces i cant belive i was still racing it like that am so lucky it didnt went bad lol so i have a questions
since i need to get me a new tranny the one i currently have its the m2y4 i was thinking i should get me the m2b4 because i really want to have an LSD tranny so that m2b4 woukd actually fit stock on my h22a4 ? does anyone knows? because i did some research and that tranny came with the JDM engines but for me it seems to be the same what u guys think/ i want to make sure before i get one
Thanks guys~!!!!
since i need to get me a new tranny the one i currently have its the m2y4 i was thinking i should get me the m2b4 because i really want to have an LSD tranny so that m2b4 woukd actually fit stock on my h22a4 ? does anyone knows? because i did some research and that tranny came with the JDM engines but for me it seems to be the same what u guys think/ i want to make sure before i get one
Thanks guys~!!!!
10-25-2016, 04:23 PM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: REBUILDING THE LUDE FOR BOOST
Not my quote but from another website-
"With the exception of a few oddballs, including the H22A, most Honda engines use cast-iron cylinder liners. Unlike cast iron, FRM is a metal-matrix composite made from carbon fiber and aluminum oxide, both high-end materials. The benefits of FRM as opposed to cast iron include improved heat transferring from the cylinders to the water jackets, higher wear resistance, and less weight. FRM allows designers to keep engine package and cooling system sizes minimal since heat-transfer properties are better, but Honda didn't exactly do that with the H22A. Instead of making the block smaller, which would in turn decrease the cooling system's jackets and port dimensions, Honda kept it the same, which means FRM-lined H22As are potentially more efficient in terms of cooling than cast-iron-lined engines, which means, in theory, they'll last longer. FRM is ceramic based, like spark plug insulators, so it's more durable than cast iron and theoretically has a longer service life. Theoretically. There's nothing wrong with FRM liners, that is, until you get into a buildup, and even then they're not so bad. The problem lies not just with the liners but the pistons. Honda developed special gravity-cast, aluminum-alloy pistons with specific expansion rates that work in an FRM environment. FRM liners expand more than cast-iron ones, which means the pistons have got to account for the expansion. Most aftermarket forged pistons are manufactured for use with cast-iron liners, which means popping a set in an FRM block can spell serious problems. None of this is really that big of a deal anymore though. A few piston manufacturers offer FRM-compatible forged pistons and ring sets and, if that doesn't float your boat, you can always sleeve the block with ductile iron sleeves, which you'd end up needing anyway if you're shooting for big numbers."
Right now I am doing an h23 turbo build in my 99 prelude. Frm liners are no good for boost what so ever. Maybe 5-7 pounds at max. If you want to "boost it", you would have to sleeve it. I put Darton M.I.D. sleeves in mine. I wouldn't bore it either but that is just personal preference I guess. It's a lot of money to work on an "H" engine. But so far I got the block sleeved. I got wiseco pistons. Eagle rods. Needed a custom head gasket due to the pistons sticking up a little farther due to the h23 crank. I went with a .51 cosmetic head gasket. Gt35r turbo. I'm not completed yet. Still have some things to buy. Undecided on the header I want to use (log style if I want to keep ac, top mount etc) I haven't touched the head yet and deciding on the p13 or the pde head. Not sure which one is better but I believe the pde head. But it's all about the cash you have to spend. You can do minor things here and there that give you enough hp that will make you very happy. Let's just say I set a money limit and I am well exceeded the budget ten fold. H23-500, Sleeves were 600. Machine shop-close to 2000(not happy on the price) Pistons,rods...etc. The header is going to be around 600. Turbo was 600. "Turboing"an frm liner engine is bad news.
"With the exception of a few oddballs, including the H22A, most Honda engines use cast-iron cylinder liners. Unlike cast iron, FRM is a metal-matrix composite made from carbon fiber and aluminum oxide, both high-end materials. The benefits of FRM as opposed to cast iron include improved heat transferring from the cylinders to the water jackets, higher wear resistance, and less weight. FRM allows designers to keep engine package and cooling system sizes minimal since heat-transfer properties are better, but Honda didn't exactly do that with the H22A. Instead of making the block smaller, which would in turn decrease the cooling system's jackets and port dimensions, Honda kept it the same, which means FRM-lined H22As are potentially more efficient in terms of cooling than cast-iron-lined engines, which means, in theory, they'll last longer. FRM is ceramic based, like spark plug insulators, so it's more durable than cast iron and theoretically has a longer service life. Theoretically. There's nothing wrong with FRM liners, that is, until you get into a buildup, and even then they're not so bad. The problem lies not just with the liners but the pistons. Honda developed special gravity-cast, aluminum-alloy pistons with specific expansion rates that work in an FRM environment. FRM liners expand more than cast-iron ones, which means the pistons have got to account for the expansion. Most aftermarket forged pistons are manufactured for use with cast-iron liners, which means popping a set in an FRM block can spell serious problems. None of this is really that big of a deal anymore though. A few piston manufacturers offer FRM-compatible forged pistons and ring sets and, if that doesn't float your boat, you can always sleeve the block with ductile iron sleeves, which you'd end up needing anyway if you're shooting for big numbers."
Right now I am doing an h23 turbo build in my 99 prelude. Frm liners are no good for boost what so ever. Maybe 5-7 pounds at max. If you want to "boost it", you would have to sleeve it. I put Darton M.I.D. sleeves in mine. I wouldn't bore it either but that is just personal preference I guess. It's a lot of money to work on an "H" engine. But so far I got the block sleeved. I got wiseco pistons. Eagle rods. Needed a custom head gasket due to the pistons sticking up a little farther due to the h23 crank. I went with a .51 cosmetic head gasket. Gt35r turbo. I'm not completed yet. Still have some things to buy. Undecided on the header I want to use (log style if I want to keep ac, top mount etc) I haven't touched the head yet and deciding on the p13 or the pde head. Not sure which one is better but I believe the pde head. But it's all about the cash you have to spend. You can do minor things here and there that give you enough hp that will make you very happy. Let's just say I set a money limit and I am well exceeded the budget ten fold. H23-500, Sleeves were 600. Machine shop-close to 2000(not happy on the price) Pistons,rods...etc. The header is going to be around 600. Turbo was 600. "Turboing"an frm liner engine is bad news.
Trending Topics
10-25-2016, 04:34 PM
#8
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: REBUILDING THE LUDE FOR BOOST
I also forgot to add that the h22a4 has ATTS that mounts on the back of the block. The h22a4 can only use the stock trans due to the atts. The h22a block vs the a4 block is different due to the atts being back there. You would need a special bracket that deletes the atts. Since the atts is there, the axle shafts are different vs the base model. I got the t2t4 trans that is lsd. But since I got the h23, I can do that. Good luck
10-26-2016, 07:05 AM
#9
Re: REBUILDING THE LUDE FOR BOOST
Wow guys, Just about everyone in this post needs to slow down and use more punctuation and break the thoughts up into readable size. I know this may be tough if you are using a cell phone, but it will help us read and respond.
Basically it sound like you need to take the engine to a shop that knows what they are doing to build it capable of boost. This means iron sleeves, forged pistons, good rods, proper clearances etc.
You should probably also consult with a tuning shop to decide on turbo, manifold, fueling, engine management and tuning, having piping made etc.
The tranny, you should be good with an M2B4, but if your engine was from an SH car with ATTS unit, you will need a custom bracket to mount the half shaft from a non-ATTS car.
That and 5-10K dollars should be a good start towards a boosted Prelude.
Basically it sound like you need to take the engine to a shop that knows what they are doing to build it capable of boost. This means iron sleeves, forged pistons, good rods, proper clearances etc.
You should probably also consult with a tuning shop to decide on turbo, manifold, fueling, engine management and tuning, having piping made etc.
The tranny, you should be good with an M2B4, but if your engine was from an SH car with ATTS unit, you will need a custom bracket to mount the half shaft from a non-ATTS car.
That and 5-10K dollars should be a good start towards a boosted Prelude.
10-26-2016, 02:04 PM
#10
Premium Member
Re: REBUILDING THE LUDE FOR BOOST
Frm liners are no good for boost what so ever. Maybe 5-7 pounds at max. That is pure misinformation. Please stop spreading this like majority of the community was doing back in 1999. FRM liners are FINE for boost, and are actually stronger than iron liners. Take a look at the F20C/F22C of the S2000 that shares the FRM liners AND uses forged pistons from the factory. They can withstand ridiculous amounts of power without ever being opened.
5-7psi of boost is totally relative as well and can bring wildly different power numbers depending on the turbo setup used. A more general "rule" is how much power the engine can handle before it goes kaboom. Take a gander at the Stock Horsepower limit thread in the Forced Induction section and you will see many examples doing 400whp+ on bone stock engines. Tuning and an efficient turbo setup will greatly increase the odds of having success with a stock engine.
If you want to "boost it", you would have to sleeve it. "Turboing"an frm liner engine is bad news. False. While sleeving is the best option if shooting for large amounts of power, most setups can utilize the factory FRM sleeves and make more power than what's usable on a FWD street car. NPR makes a cast piston that will drop right into a stock H series block but uses a superior alloy for boost and hardened pins. Combined with a set of eagle rods, 400whp+ could be attained reliably with a quiet, stock-like cast piston. Mahle also offers replacement forged pistons with their Gold series line, however proper clearances are paramount when utilizing such pistons.
5-7psi of boost is totally relative as well and can bring wildly different power numbers depending on the turbo setup used. A more general "rule" is how much power the engine can handle before it goes kaboom. Take a gander at the Stock Horsepower limit thread in the Forced Induction section and you will see many examples doing 400whp+ on bone stock engines. Tuning and an efficient turbo setup will greatly increase the odds of having success with a stock engine.
If you want to "boost it", you would have to sleeve it. "Turboing"an frm liner engine is bad news. False. While sleeving is the best option if shooting for large amounts of power, most setups can utilize the factory FRM sleeves and make more power than what's usable on a FWD street car. NPR makes a cast piston that will drop right into a stock H series block but uses a superior alloy for boost and hardened pins. Combined with a set of eagle rods, 400whp+ could be attained reliably with a quiet, stock-like cast piston. Mahle also offers replacement forged pistons with their Gold series line, however proper clearances are paramount when utilizing such pistons.
10-27-2016, 09:04 AM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: REBUILDING THE LUDE FOR BOOST
Not my quote but from another website-
"With the exception of a few oddballs, including the H22A, most Honda engines use cast-iron cylinder liners. Unlike cast iron, FRM is a metal-matrix composite made from carbon fiber and aluminum oxide, both high-end materials. The benefits of FRM as opposed to cast iron include improved heat transferring from the cylinders to the water jackets, higher wear resistance, and less weight. FRM allows designers to keep engine package and cooling system sizes minimal since heat-transfer properties are better, but Honda didn't exactly do that with the H22A. Instead of making the block smaller, which would in turn decrease the cooling system's jackets and port dimensions, Honda kept it the same, which means FRM-lined H22As are potentially more efficient in terms of cooling than cast-iron-lined engines, which means, in theory, they'll last longer. FRM is ceramic based, like spark plug insulators, so it's more durable than cast iron and theoretically has a longer service life. Theoretically. There's nothing wrong with FRM liners, that is, until you get into a buildup, and even then they're not so bad. The problem lies not just with the liners but the pistons. Honda developed special gravity-cast, aluminum-alloy pistons with specific expansion rates that work in an FRM environment. FRM liners expand more than cast-iron ones, which means the pistons have got to account for the expansion. Most aftermarket forged pistons are manufactured for use with cast-iron liners, which means popping a set in an FRM block can spell serious problems. None of this is really that big of a deal anymore though. A few piston manufacturers offer FRM-compatible forged pistons and ring sets and, if that doesn't float your boat, you can always sleeve the block with ductile iron sleeves, which you'd end up needing anyway if you're shooting for big numbers."
Right now I am doing an h23 turbo build in my 99 prelude. Frm liners are no good for boost what so ever. Maybe 5-7 pounds at max. If you want to "boost it", you would have to sleeve it. I put Darton M.I.D. sleeves in mine. I wouldn't bore it either but that is just personal preference I guess. It's a lot of money to work on an "H" engine. But so far I got the block sleeved. I got wiseco pistons. Eagle rods. Needed a custom head gasket due to the pistons sticking up a little farther due to the h23 crank. I went with a .51 cosmetic head gasket. Gt35r turbo. I'm not completed yet. Still have some things to buy. Undecided on the header I want to use (log style if I want to keep ac, top mount etc) I haven't touched the head yet and deciding on the p13 or the pde head. Not sure which one is better but I believe the pde head. But it's all about the cash you have to spend. You can do minor things here and there that give you enough hp that will make you very happy. Let's just say I set a money limit and I am well exceeded the budget ten fold. H23-500, Sleeves were 600. Machine shop-close to 2000(not happy on the price) Pistons,rods...etc. The header is going to be around 600. Turbo was 600. "Turboing"an frm liner engine is bad news.
"With the exception of a few oddballs, including the H22A, most Honda engines use cast-iron cylinder liners. Unlike cast iron, FRM is a metal-matrix composite made from carbon fiber and aluminum oxide, both high-end materials. The benefits of FRM as opposed to cast iron include improved heat transferring from the cylinders to the water jackets, higher wear resistance, and less weight. FRM allows designers to keep engine package and cooling system sizes minimal since heat-transfer properties are better, but Honda didn't exactly do that with the H22A. Instead of making the block smaller, which would in turn decrease the cooling system's jackets and port dimensions, Honda kept it the same, which means FRM-lined H22As are potentially more efficient in terms of cooling than cast-iron-lined engines, which means, in theory, they'll last longer. FRM is ceramic based, like spark plug insulators, so it's more durable than cast iron and theoretically has a longer service life. Theoretically. There's nothing wrong with FRM liners, that is, until you get into a buildup, and even then they're not so bad. The problem lies not just with the liners but the pistons. Honda developed special gravity-cast, aluminum-alloy pistons with specific expansion rates that work in an FRM environment. FRM liners expand more than cast-iron ones, which means the pistons have got to account for the expansion. Most aftermarket forged pistons are manufactured for use with cast-iron liners, which means popping a set in an FRM block can spell serious problems. None of this is really that big of a deal anymore though. A few piston manufacturers offer FRM-compatible forged pistons and ring sets and, if that doesn't float your boat, you can always sleeve the block with ductile iron sleeves, which you'd end up needing anyway if you're shooting for big numbers."
Right now I am doing an h23 turbo build in my 99 prelude. Frm liners are no good for boost what so ever. Maybe 5-7 pounds at max. If you want to "boost it", you would have to sleeve it. I put Darton M.I.D. sleeves in mine. I wouldn't bore it either but that is just personal preference I guess. It's a lot of money to work on an "H" engine. But so far I got the block sleeved. I got wiseco pistons. Eagle rods. Needed a custom head gasket due to the pistons sticking up a little farther due to the h23 crank. I went with a .51 cosmetic head gasket. Gt35r turbo. I'm not completed yet. Still have some things to buy. Undecided on the header I want to use (log style if I want to keep ac, top mount etc) I haven't touched the head yet and deciding on the p13 or the pde head. Not sure which one is better but I believe the pde head. But it's all about the cash you have to spend. You can do minor things here and there that give you enough hp that will make you very happy. Let's just say I set a money limit and I am well exceeded the budget ten fold. H23-500, Sleeves were 600. Machine shop-close to 2000(not happy on the price) Pistons,rods...etc. The header is going to be around 600. Turbo was 600. "Turboing"an frm liner engine is bad news.
now, if you want to be reliable and make big power and not worry about a little detonation putting a hole in your piston, then you need forged pistons, and yes, you will need to resleeve it because the FRM sleeves cant take a forged slug.
all that said, your build sounds pretty cool and you should definitely share your numbers when its all said and done.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post