97AClude

I posted this is another forum and haven't gotten too many votes, so what do you guys think?

Here's my situation:

Recently, I've put in about $2000 in maintenance/new parts for my 97 Prelude, and she's got about 123k miles on her. She's got a new radiator, new catalytic converter and o2 sensors, new front rotors/pads, and some other maintanence done. This included the troubleshooting of a leak that was coming out of the crank case and onto the oil pan, which was believed to be caused by the camshaft oil seals. This also lead to the discovery of new leaks on the other side of the engine, the vtec solenoid gasket and a cylinder head grommet which was leaking onto the tranny.

After replacing the camshaft oil seals, there was still a leak coming out of the crank case. Now I think it could be the crankshaft seal, or it could possibly be leaking out in between the oil pan and the block.

On top of all of this, I've noticed recently that I've had to add a lot of oil frequently. So about a week ago, the oil dipstick was almost dry. The oil level was at about an 1/8 inch from the bottom of the stick, so I added 3 quarts of oil, topping it off to a little above the second hole. A week later, after driving approximately 700 miles, it's at the same level it was at before I added 3 quarts! I'm using Mobil 1 Synthetic 5W-30, which is not cheap oil. I've also read here that synthetic oil could burn faster on higher mileage engines...so should I switch to high mileage oil and see what happens?

If I'm losing 3 quarts that quickly, I would have to be burning oil as well, but I don't notice blue smoke out of my exhaust when I'm driving. Also, it could be the leaks, but if it's leaking THAT bad wouldn't I have a puddle of oil on my driveway? I figure if I'm burning that much oil than blue smoke would be quite obvious...but as far as I can tell I can't see any; unless this is something only visible from standing behind the car...

If it's really burning oil that bad, then that means I would need to rebuild the motor with new valve seals and/or piston rings. I helped build a CBR600F4i engine before, and rebuilding a passenger car engine is something I've always wanted to learn, so since they're somewhat related this would be an opportunity.

So what should I do?

1. Forget the Prelude, it's not worth fixing, upgrade to a used s2k now! (or something else, suggestions?)
2. Buy an engine, learn how to and completely rebuild it with all the goodies, and do an engine swap with the existing engine
3. Get the VTEC solenoid gasket and cylinder head grommet replaced, plug up the leak from the crankcase, let the engine burn oil and by another car next year
4. Get a shop to rebuild the engine now and be golden for another 100k miles or so
5. Some other choice I haven't thought of...

Chris F

Fix the known leaks for sure.. it's going to be hard to tell how much oil is being burned if you're losing it.

Also, switch to CHEAP oil. No point in burning good stuff. It's not like it'll do a bad job, and you probably don't care about this motor that much anyway. Plus, yes, it will seep out slower and burn a little less. Mobil1 5w30 is thin stuff.

97AClude

so fix the known leaks, which will probably cost around 600 total (assuming the crank seal is leaking, plus parts for the vtec solenoid gasket and cylinder head grommet), then figure it out from there? i figured that it should be burning much more oil than it's leaking, otherwise my driveway would have an oil pool wouldn't it? also, would you have to be directly behind the car to see the blue smoke out of the exhaust? most of my driving is highway, and so far i haven't noticed an obvious blue cloud behind me...

Hawkze_2.3

Yeah, just fix the leaks that you are sure about and then see if the oil leaks stop. if not, fix another leak and eventually you'll have it back to normal. You can do it yourself for a lot cheaper than $600...I know Honda seals and gaskets aren't that much.

97AClude

i can fix the simple leaks for sure, but the leak out of the crankcase is the one i can't do...that would probably involve the timing belt and the crankshaft seal which is probably leaking. so thats where the majority of that 600 is coming from...

from what i hear leaks are the hardest to fix b/c you have to plug one up and keep checking, then plug another and another. after spending all that money, the engine's still burning oil...

unless you think the leaks causing the majority of the oil loss? but i was thinking if that's the case, then wouldn't i see it in the driveway?

Hawkze_2.3

I don't get exactly what you mean by leaking from the crankcase....the timing belt area? somewhere on the block???

97AClude

if you look underneath the car, on the timing belt side, theres a cover at the bottom where the crank is...it's leaking out of there onto the oil pan. i've heard this is a terrible spot to have a leak b/c theres so many gaskets on that side that could leak to the bottom, and to figure out each one is a pain b/c you have to move around so many parts...

MadCityLude

So it could be the balance shaft seal. I installed a retainer on mine do to prevent this. This is a very common problem from what I remember.

twistedbydezign

if its coming out of the cover on the driver side, its either front bal seal or front main seal, there is a clip that bolts on using one of the oil pump bolts that holds the bal shaft seal in, it was a service advisory/recall from honda, the dealership parts dept SHOULD know what you are talking about...i would do a leakdown test, if numbers are good then you know your oil loss is mostly due to leaks, if numbers are bad then start considering rebuild or new engine cuz valve seals/rings will only get worse...a leakdown test will tell you in minutes where the problem is rather than replacing huge pain in the *** block/head/tranny seals 1 by 1 semi-guessing at the problem, until you do the leakdown i would start using dino oil and lay off the synthetic

97AClude

ill call up the dealership and ask them about the service advisory/recall...thanks for the tip. i've never done a leakdown test before but i will search and learn how, doesn't sound too difficult though. if it turns out terrible and i need a new engine/rebuild...is it worth spending the money for a motor and parts to rebuild, or just sell the car and spend money on another ride?

twistedbydezign

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97AClude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ill call up the dealership and ask them about the service advisory/recall...thanks for the tip. i've never done a leakdown test before but i will search and learn how, doesn't sound too difficult though. if it turns out terrible and i need a new engine/rebuild...is it worth spending the money for a motor and parts to rebuild, or just sell the car and spend money on another ride?</TD></TR></TABLE>

it really depends, if the leakdown shows that rings are gone, rings, bearings, hone, seals, etc. can get a little expensive, but the engine is basically going to be brand new afterwards so its usually worth it, if the leakdown shows that its just the valve seals, pulling the head is easy and $150ish for a valve job isnt that expensive, most of the cost of a rebuild is labor, so if u do it urself its worth it, if someone else is going to be doing it, then now may be the time to decide if you want to keep the car or if maybe youve been thinking about a change...first things first though, get that leakdown done and find out where the problem is, then go from there

97AClude

good point. might be getting ahead of myself here...maybe b/c i've been staring at the s2k picture thread all day

M2B4

i know in the 4th gens there was a recall back there around the timing which was a easy like 8 dollar part and jus the labor of putting it in ill look for the recall info.

97AClude

i just talked to a mechanic i know...he said that it wouldn't be worth doing a leakdown or compression test b/c it is definitely burning oil more than it's leaking (b/c there aren't puddles of oil where i park), and that it's not worth fixing the leaks b/c it's throwing money away (leaks that i wouldn't be able to fix, like the one out of the crankcase). i know the leakdown/compression tests are easy to do, but i dont have an air compressor or the other tools needed. he recommended to find another motor and swap it out, and that his guess was that the piston rings are the major cause of the oil burning, more so than the valve seals.

comments/suggestions?

paulab

I don't have any suggestions (other than sticking with a thicker oil for high mileage cars) but am interested to know what you do. I have a '98 prelude which is burning oil (or maybe leaking somewhere that isn't dripping) at a rate of about 1 quart per tank. I just switched to 10W-40 and will see if that disappears at the same rate.

My292Ludes

**** man go to WALMART and buy a compression tester for $20. Make Certain of the problem before you pull the damn motor.

My oil cooler was leaking oil and I almost never saw oil on the ground, cause it dripped onto the exhaust and burned up. And the leak was only there when the system was pressurized so by the time the exhaust cooled the system had no pressure to push it out.

I am not saying that is your problem cause you would smell the burning.

Just check it out first. Leakdown testers can also be puchased at your local parts stores for around $30 I believe.

97AClude

paulab: let me know how that 10w-40 works. i was using mobil 1 synthetic 5w-30 but will switch to dino oil until i figure out what to do. i might as well take out my wallet and set it on fire if i keep using mobil1...

My292Ludes: yea im definitely not gonna just go and pull the motor b/c one mechanic recommends it...just wondering what others think or if anyone has had this type of problem.

based on the rate that im losing oil, what the mechanic said makes sense...it has to be burning oil badly somewhere...as to what to do about it, that's what im thinking about right now. do i pull the motor, put in another one, and take my time rebuilding the original? another motor might cost about 1500, rebuilding the original...well the sky's the limit there. is that worth it on the prelude, or should i just get rid of it and upgrade to something else?

MadCityLude

If you find out 100% certain it is burning an assload of oil I would buy a JDM replacement. It would cost you prolly about $1500 shipped to your door. A friend of mine just bought one for $1100 shipped to his door off ebay. I helped him with the swap and it is a damn nice motor. By the appearance of it I would figure it is as nice as any other. Compression checked out at 200 on all 4 and it passed leakdown no flags. Runnin strong and no complaints. Just make sure you find a seller with a good reputation.

Then I would buy an F23 from an accord and use the H22 head on the shortblock of the F23. https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1069869. And once I completed my build I would swap them back.


Modified by MadCityLude at 3:45 PM 9/1/2006

paulab

Is 1500 an average for a brand new motor or a new-to-you motor?

daoshao

fix leaks first.....then figure out how much oil burning....then comtemplate ordering a new motor....sell your old motor and make some $$$ to cover your new motor.

MadCityLude

Well they aren't new, just JDM used. And I would say for a longblock yes 1500 is prolly about average.

And I wouldn't bother fixing the leaks if it is burning a shitload, cause it would be wasted money.

97AClude

yea thats what i figured...dont even bother fixing the leaks b/c i cant fix some of them myself, especially the ones on the crankcase side....labor for moving around all those parts is $$$, so i might as well put that into a new motor.

i have definitely thought about buying a JDM motor and swapping...did you have any difficulties with this? i dont have an engine stand or crane so i'd imagine it'd be difficult without one.

MadCityLude

Where are you located?

twistedbydezign

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97AClude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yea thats what i figured...dont even bother fixing the leaks b/c i cant fix some of them myself, especially the ones on the crankcase side....labor for moving around all those parts is $$$, so i might as well put that into a new motor. </TD></TR></TABLE>

you do realize that at the MOST, a seller of JDM engines has a startup guarantee only for the most part, meaning, you have no idea the condition of the motor in its original car, how it was treated packing, then put into the container and shipped to the u.s., then going through customs, shipped to the distributor, and then repacked and shipped through ups/usps/fedex/etc. to you, meaning any number of bad things could happen to it (and many times do) but the motor will still start up, my h22 had leaky exhaust valve seals when i got it

plus, whenever you get a used motor unless you know for sure theyve been done, you will want to change out the known problem areas like cam seals, valve cover gasket, timing belt, water pump, autotensioner, balance seals, front/rear main seals, possibly oil pan gasket, clutch, flywheel, etc.....

the motor you have runs, for all you know, the used motor you buy could end up being in even worse condition but still run, then all you'll end up with are 2 motors leaking and other possible stuff....

do the ******* leakdown, if its only valve seals then youve scored, rings then go from there, leakdown is good then you scored even more and will only have to change out some seals, bottom line is, dont guess at the problem and ignore, find out the problem first....it would suck to buy a replacement motor so you dont have to fix bad rings/valve seals/leaks only to end up with another motor that does the same exact thing potentially...

MadCityLude

^^^ I agree for the most part, but if the problem is in the bottom end, rings etc etc.. then I would go for the swap. The swap I bought had a 30 day warranty. Not anything great, but enough time to check it over thouroghly one it was running.

But still find out the problem, first!!