Gh86

Hi all, I'll start with an introduction as I'm new here. I have a 01 prelude SE with an h22a4, 5 speed, bone stock, and a starting mystery.

Here's where I'm at.
For the past few weeks I've had a p0300 random misfire code with misfires only at startup. Accompanying that is the p1*** Honda misfire code, as well as individual cylinder codes. After a few seconds, no trouble running, and regular drive quality.
Yesterday I got a No-start, and I haven't had it going since.

What I've done so far.
--Fuel pressure tests at 50psi, filter replaced recently chasing the misfire.
--Spark is making it to the plugs, I've replaced plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and module chasing the misfire.
--Fuel is making it past the injectors, there is signal at the injector harness, and plugs are wet after starting attempt.
--Main relay is functioning properly.
--Have tried starting it with FITV port covered.
--Have bled the cooling system.
--Have tried to start with ether, as it will sputter while cranking.
--Have looked for vacuum leaks, but was unable to test with propane before No-start.
--Crank, cam, map, intake temp, and TPS all test ok with scan tool, and meter testing as per Honda manual.

My questions.
How likely is it that my problem is a bad ECU?
What do you think of it being water in the fuel?
Fuel pressure when cranking also 50 psi, bad FPR causing rich condition?
Compression loss? Haven't been able to test yet, waiting on gauge.

Thanks for your input, it is much appreciated. Glad to be joining the Honda-Tech community, and looking forward to contributing sometime.

KashMillien

You say the plugs are wet after starting attempt. Do ya know what liquid it is?

Gh86

It is fuel, at least it smells of fuel, and evaporates cleanly off the plug. I had no white smoke problems beforehand from a coolant leak, but I'll put that on the list for diagnostics tomorrow. No coolant in the oil either.

On the list for tomorrow morning is taking the cam cover off to check for belt slip, and compression if I can get my hands on a tester.

Gh86

OK, it's taken a turn towards head gasket. I looked at the plugs this morning, after a night of sitting and they were still wet with the fluid beading on them. Turned the car over with fuel and spark unplugged, and they come back wet. Time to have it towed and fixed, as it's beyond what I can do in a parking lot. Thanks for the help!

Gh86

New information. It's not a head gasket. Compression is 170-180 across the board, and no gasses are entering the coolant. I was able to test the FPR and EGR valve, and they both test OK.
I had another no-start tonight, and got it going by drying the plugs and turning it over a few times with the injectors un-plugged. The problem is a rich condition at startup.
Codes poping up are
P0300 - random misfire, along with honda's misfire code, P1399 I think.
P0301 - cyl 1
P0302 - cyl 2
P0303 - cyl 3
P0401 - EGR flow insufficient

The EGR code was around when I bought the car, but went away when I plugged in a vacuum line the previous owner left off.

The shop it was at said the catalytic was due for replacement, catalyst is broken up inside; could this cause a rich condition?
My other thought is leaky injectors, without the misfire on 4, but even 3 seems unlikely.
Next up is the throttle body and idle air control systems.

Any thoughts on what else might be causing the rich condition?
Thanks for all the help!

holmesnmanny

Just for the hell of it, test the ect sensor for ohms across the two pins. Should be around 2000-2500.

It drops down to 180-250 after fully warmed up.

Gh86

I haven't tested the ECT sensor that way, but it shows accurate on the scan tool.

sublimeluder

I'd say previous owner had vacuum off for a reason. Try cleaning egr valve this could be the issue. Idk im just guessing here but I know clogged egr valve will effect idle. Im not sure if it could cause rich issue. Idk if it could be cat or not it's possible. Iknow running rich can cause your cat to fail. Good luck hope ya figure it out

v4lu3s

in the past when i have had good spark, but wet plugs that would mean either injectors stuck open (wiring mishap during a swap) or timing had skipped and the fuel and spark were coming at the wrong time. have you verified that the mechanical timing is correct?

Preteclude

In my past experience an EGR. Would cause a lean issue. Like I said for me. ECT wouldn't keep it from starting it would just idle funny.

tamboo

"yes a bad ECT can cause hard starting or a no start condition."

starting - 2001 honda civic failing to start when hot - Motor Vehicle Maintenance & Repair Stack Exchange

Gh86

Thanks everyone for the replies.

New information. Still having the same problem, but I am for-sure getting coolant on the plugs now. I had the injectors flow and leak tested, and they are performing perfectly. Coolant temp sensor is OK, and I am now assuming there is not a rich condition at startup.

After another no-start, this time after the car had been sitting for some time, I pulled the plugs, and they were all soaked in coolant. I can be sure of it this time, as I have leak-check in the coolant, and it is all fluorescent green.

At this point I am still ruling out a head gasket as compression was good, and all cylinders seem equally affected. I currently have the throttle body and FITV off as I suspected the valve as the source, but it seems in good condition.

Where else, besides FITV could coolant be entering the intake tract? everything before the throttle body seems dry, and there would have to be a significant amount coming from somewhere.

Thanks again!

Gh86

Pulled both the IAC and FIT valves today, and checked that there was no leaks between their coolant passages and intake passages, so they should not be causing a problem.

Anywhere that coolant might interface a vacuum line?

Rekkerslude

Hey man just wondering if you ever found the problem. im having issues with my 98 lude and the sound identical to yours.

Gh86

I sure did find out! It ended up being a head gasket after all. When it would get up to temperature the expansion of the head would be enough to seal it up, but at cold starts it would pour coolant into the cylinders. A leak-down test when the engine is cold should bubble into the coolant passages if you're having the same problems. Mine would pass compression tests fine, but i'm sure would fail a leak-down test. A gasket set, some ARP head studs, and a day in a parking lot is what got mine running again. Hope yours is something simpler than that.