ESP.net

FRM cylinders... I'll post up the measurements today try a lil harder with my tool. But it does appear that they are infact very similar to the JDM H22A cams within a couple thousandths... which would make me think reason is off is me or wear and it's too close and they are the same...

Televator

iTrader: (1)

What about their slopes? anything noticeable to the eye?

ESP.net

I did 2 vtec lobes on each side Intake and Exhaust: JDM H23A Vtec Blue Top:
These are as acurate as I can get with cam tops on... there maybe a couple thousandths difference at most...

Intake:
1.452 36.88mm
1.451 36.86mm

Exhaust:
1.427 36.25mm
1.427 36.25mm

I couldn't see too much of a difference in slopes but really didnt take that good of a look. I don't have my JDM H22 Cams anymore sold them last night with my old engine that went. so did a half as measurement last night...

Pirate maybe able to determine on the measurements above



Modified by ESP.net at 10:47 AM 7/23/2008

ESP.net

Agreed... these cams do look more like the US spec NoN SH... wish I would of kept my half *** numbers off my jdm h22 vtec but they did appear to be the same...

US spec 97-01 Type SH even has a lil better cam:



Pirate and Natalie... see any issues of me running Type S cams on the stock valve springs and retainers...? I read a while back some people had rocker issues? Because they didnt switch out to Type S springs and retainers? was this definetly a 97 and pre head issue? Thanks for the help guys.

I believe it was how the PDE Euro Head valve angle difference? Well if this head is a PDE like it is does this mean I shouldn't have an issue?


Modified by ESP.net at 11:38 AM 7/23/2008

ESP.net

Your right Pirate I forgot I posted above about the same part # from Base 5 spd, Base Auto and SH model

ESP.net

Final Tally of the In's and Out's of this Auto H23A Vtec 2000 Blue Top:

* 55mm mains
* No oil squirters
* factory balancing holes on crank seems to be same as H23A1
* PDE-3 rods that have a threaded in bolt into Rod with no nut
* PDE head HF-1 (Same as Euro R/ Type S)
* 65.5mm Throttle Body tappers to 62mm on inside (Same as Euro R/ Type S)
* Markings on Throttle Body read PCBX HF-1
* PCB top part Timing Belt Plastic
* P13 bottom part Timing Belt Plastic
* P13/JDM H22A water pump
* P13 Timing Belt part #
* Hydralic Tensioner
* Alternator ONLY crank pulley (Most like same part # as F20B, Euro R)
* Cams from measuring seem to be USDM/JDM H22A cams
* FRM cylinders
* Pistons most likely is similar to the USDM H22A piston but with H23 like valve reliefs
* Intake manifold looks more so like a smaller stock Accord one then a H22A
* Obviously has secondaries like a USDM/JDM/Type S manifold
* Euro R/Type S style injectors and possibly angle





Modified by ESP.net at 1:38 PM 7/23/2008

vinuneuro

Can you verify whether or not the head is polished like the Type-S and EuroR units?

ESP.net

Yea I'll actually take off the intake manifold here in a few minutes, and compare the head to the usdm one I happen to have... I'll post pictures up...

Televator

iTrader: (1)

Yes! Now we'll know if the blue top status is deserved on the head or not.

ESP.net

Here are the Intake Manifolds side by side H23A Vtec on Left and JDM H22A on Right: It does seem the nose of the port on the H23A Vtec manifold is different possibly lil smaller then the normal H22A manifold which could be from the Euro R/Type S style injector and angle?



Close up of JDM H22A intake manifold:



Close up of the H23A Vtec intake manifold:



Normal H22A Intake Port:



H23A Vtec Intake Port:



I cleaned both the Intake ports, The H22A head seemed to have a lot more rougher casting with a kinda big dip as the runner goes down. The H23A Vtec Blue Top seemed to have a definetly noticable smoother type casting with no dips. The pictures aren't the best quality. It kinda seemed like on the H23A Vtec intake port there was a lighter and darker area as to where the sandscroll etc. might of stopped but this is just an assumption. Better casting or a Factory Port??? Duno I personally never seen a Type S or Euro R or Type R factory job...

A Blue Lude

The "R" spec PDE head I have has an inch-long blue paint mark down the front.
The US base PDE head I have doesn't. Never seen the inside of either though. It would be interesting to.

Televator

iTrader: (1)

Bah...It's too hard me me to say any differences, if any, aren't just the camera playing tricks or wishful thinking.

ESP.net

Either way the H23A vtec definetly has a smoother factory casting

vinuneuro

If the ports in the H23a mani are slightly smaller, are the ports in the two heads the same size or not?

ESP.net

The ports seem to be the same it's part coming from the top of the circle to the nose area that seems a lil smaller/different then the H22A traditional I will take the gasket off the Blue Top and put it on the H22A traidional items tomorrow.

ESP.net

Thought I would post up a dyno plot of this H23A Vtec Blue Top:
That someone did a while back...

I/H/E
2000 H23A Vtec came Auto Blue Top
M2A4 transmission
Greddy header with 2.5" mod
Short Ram Air Intake
2.5" K teller mandrel bent exhaust
P13 I believe...

191 whp and 163 trq

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ESP.net &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The ports seem to be the same it's part coming from the top of the circle to the nose area that seems a lil smaller/different then the H22A traditional I will take the gasket off the Blue Top and put it on the H22A traidional items tomorrow.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would say that has to do with the injectors like you said as well. I had no idea this was the same head as the Euro-R. I've been thinking of getting one of these from H-Motors.

ESP.net

I think I am just going to run the cams that are in it and see what kinda #'s we get....

I really dont want to take the investment of $450 on Type S cams and find out I have an issue with the valve springs like Pirate explained. Definetly do not want to take the head off at this time to replace valve springs/retainers and valve job.

ESP.net

Thought I would toss this into the thread. I got the Blue Top H23A Vtec dyno tuned today by James at http://www.SpeedFactoryRacing.net I was pretty pleased with the results.

212 whp 174 ft lbs torque.... his dynapack is meant to be more accurate then a dynojet and has dyno sheet comparisons saying his dynapack reads lower. Est. whp on dynojet is 225 range.

Mods again:
ESP 4-2-1 Header 2.5" collector
3" quick dump off with magnaflow round muffler
OBD1 H22A injectors 345cc
Manual Tensioner
Euro R manifold
68mm TB
3" short ram BPI stack K&N filer
Stock H23A Vtec Blue Top CAMS
p28 chrome tuned
Vtec 4600 RPM

vinuneuro

Wow, even if the dyno reads a little high, that's impressive. Any idea what a stock H22 dyno's on this?

ESP.net

His dynapack is meant to read lower then a dynojet, dynojet would of gained me higher numbers... fact not fiction

He has sheets and comparisons of a few cars on his dynapack and a dynojet. His dynapack sees lower #'s

Pro 1 JDM H22A with bolts on that dyno has seen mid to low 190's whp and 150+ trq. He has a sheet on file as well.

After dialing in AFR's right off the bat on first run was 202 whp with no dialing of timing. Then we played around.

Sam_J

Damn, This whole thread is chock full of info concerning the h23a vtec!

Im amazed at the power it puts out with such minor mods!
I need to get me one of these god-like motors.

alterdcreations

nice power. safe rev limit.
great dd combo

mmmtrbolude93

does anyone know whether an exhaust mani from an h22a1 will bolt up to a h23 bluetop vtec?

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmmtrbolude93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does anyone know whether an exhaust mani from an h22a1 will bolt up to a h23 bluetop vtec?</TD></TR></TABLE>

it will, he's running his H22 ESP header.