cpmike

finally have them both side by side, and i was able to take a closer look at what makes the PDE/euro-r H22A head different from a "stock" one.

the most notable, significant difference is that the euro-r head has enlarged/ported intake runners (gasket matched), from the factory. the euro-r intake manifold of course has runners to match. so that makes me wonder if anybody else has noticed this, because many people have installed euro-r intake manifolds on stock p13 heads, which to me seems counter productive

internally, the heads appear to be completely identical. they share the same rocker arms, cam caps, etc. in the past some have said valve angles were changed from 60° to 75° or whatever, but judging by the valve seat machine marks (the ones from original casting of the head), it appears that they have identical valve angles as well. of course i didnt get a clear measurement, but its way too similar to be any different.

other than that, all of the other studs, bolts, and holes are in the same spots.

there are numerous other difference between a euro-r motor and a regular h22a, but thats beyond the scope of this post, i compared just the heads themselves, because there has always been debate on that subject.

(this thread originally posted on cb7tuner)


PICTURES:

unfortunately i do not have a completely stock P13 to compare the PDE one to, but the P13 head i have has gasket matched intake runners, and you can clearly see that the PDE (unmodified) head's runners are the same size.

PDE/Euro-R runners:

P13/stock Ported runners:



approximated valve angle comparison (P13 left, PDE right)
- angle is compared by distance from cam journal. the distances match for all valves on both heads


intake side comparison (PDE top, P13 bottom)


exhaust side comparison (PDE top, P13 bottom)


timing belt side comparison (PDE left, P13 right)


distributor side comparison (P13 left, PDE right)


valve/gasket side comparison (PDE top, P13 bottom)


rocker/cam side comparison (PDE top, P13 bottom)

hamadiscool

Nice post man. I guess if the people with p13 heads port match the intake runners to the euro-r intake, they would see greater results in power.

-Moh

mgags7

FWIW, you measure valve angles from vertical. P13 heads are 29degrees

JDogg

can you pop one of hte valves out and get a pic of the valve job for me???

SiR-T

is the P13 head your talking about a JDM head? Because I have a PDE Head and a JDM H22 Head and the ports are the exact same size, (Intake and Exhaust ports)a friend and myself measured them yesterday... The only thing that makes the Euro-R motor make more power is the cams and slightly higher compression. The PDE head is skimmed a little bit more from the factory than a JDM H22 head.

vinuneuro

Some of the coolant ports look bigger in the EuroR head. Any explanation for that?

thao0094

so the only difference between a euro-r and regular is basically just cams and pistons then??? everything else is the same

flyrod

Thanks for sharing this info!

A Blue Lude

So how would this apply to other, non-Euro-R PDE heads?

I was just comparing my PDE IM to a locally bought IM gasket and they seemed to match up pretty well.

PirateMcFred

Back up just because this is damn good info.

ESP.net

I remember there is a difference I think on the nose of the runners between the Euro R and P13 because in order to mate the Euro R manifold on the P13 we had to enlarge the nose of each runner on the manifold... I don't remember if it was a head thing too or just the intake manifold with different then euro r injectors...

good info

98vtec

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">can you pop one of hte valves out and get a pic of the valve job for me???</TD></TR></TABLE>

i'd like to see this as well.

i'll throw this in the faq when i get back from getting my sexy on. (gym)

trooper0641

I just checked recently with a friend of mines that have a H22 PDE HF-1 head with a 00' stamp on it.. assuming its a 2000 H22 head.. and when I compared it to his other obd1 jdm h22a longblock with it's stock P13 head. The intake ports on the PDE was definately noticeably bigger. Just wondering, is the PDE HF-1 really the euro-R head? I read a few posts where a guy had a usdm longblock with the PDE HF-1 stamp on it as well. So is this a jdm or a usdm head?


The Euro-R

220 Hp 161 Trq
$ 3900.00 Plus shipping and handling.
Category: JDM USDM Engines


The Type-S


220Hp 163Trq 11.0 Compression (JDM)
$ 3299.00 Plus shipping and handling.
Category: JDM USDM Engines

notice the different in intake manifold design and cost for the swap.

too bad the intake manifold that came on my friend's PDE was already a skunk2.

question: is the H22's PDE HF-1 really the Euro-R or just a head off of a 2000 USDM Prelude?




Modified by trooper0641 at 1:45 AM 2/14/2008

trooper0641

new.. news after searching a bit to help with some more info.

precord96 said..

"So I decided to get a new motor. I'll be swapping out my motor and putting this JDM H23A Blue Top in pretty stock for now."



and

"I do have speculations on this motor, even though it's rated like a normal JDM H22A I feel there's more power in it. I think this because the other Blue Top; F20B w/ AT is rated at 180hp and the MT is 200hp, this engine is only available in AT and is rated at 200hp. I have a feeling the cams on this engine are gonna be real mild as most JDM AT engines are. Some interesting things about this engine is the intake manifold... its similar to other H22's but the IACV is a 3 wire and on the back like a Euro-R or Type R. And the top half of the manifold is somewhat different. Another very interesting thing is that this head is stamped PDE... I found this to be the same casting as Euro-R's or Type R's once again."


BlueIntegraBoy said..

"Nice, hard to find engines. 2000 Accord SiR Wagon."

snowblind7x
Yeah, my Euro-R has that exact same stamp on the head....interesting....take a look at the cams when you get them outa there. I wonder if they're the same as the Euro-R/Type-S ones...

A Blue Lude says something about his h22 with the PDE stamp.

"My USDM Head is stamped "PDE"."

in this thread

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2206494

Soo possible JDM Accord H23A Vtec Head / Euro-R / Type-S / USDM ??? since all really do have the PDE stamps on them as other metioned above?



Modified by trooper0641 at 2:15 AM 2/14/2008

Sam_J

This is a very interesting topic.. I always wondered the differences

And a couple things pop to mind that werent mentioned in this thread yet..
I purchased a euro r manifold and had to block the Fuel injector air holes on the manifold.. the head shown on the first post appears to not have these ports on the head.. Also, the oem h22 gasket i purchased lined up perfect on the euro r manifold.. I guess the real difference in having a ported PDE and a non ported PDE head would depend on which car it came from. I believe the 2000 and up euro r h22's recieved a hand port and polish, as do the type s preludes, but to what to degree i dont know

n1_kT

good thread

GoldLudeRay

all nice ****

also isnt the type-s head jdm ported slightly more than the standard

trooper0641

bump for knowledge. we need some more info

Televator

iTrader: (1)

So say the Euro R and H23A are the same head cast...would the Euro R mani bolt right up to an H23A? This thread was good to begin with, now it gets interesting...

Cruiserdude

So, can anyone say for sure how the Type-S head and the Euro-R head compare? If they're both hand-ported, one would assume that they were to the same specs, but this is Honda we're talking about, so you never know...

trooper0641

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trooper0641 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just checked recently with a friend of mines that have a H22 PDE HF-1 head with a 00' stamp on it.. assuming its a 2000 H22 head.. and when I compared it to his other obd1 jdm h22a longblock with it's stock P13 head. The intake ports on the PDE was definately noticeably bigger. Just wondering, is the PDE HF-1 really the euro-R head? I read a few posts where a guy had a usdm longblock with the PDE HF-1 stamp on it as well. So is this a jdm or a usdm head?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

***Updated: 2/22/08! New pics of my PDE H22 head***

The Stamps



The Factory Port & Polished Intake Ports of the PDE.





The exhaust ports seem to be ported & polished as well too!!



I just gave my PDE head a nice clean scrub and noticed that the ports are really factory ported and polished. The porting and the polish factory job looks great and feels cleaan as hell. It's as smooth as butter, both the intake and the exhaust ports. I was really surprised when I ran my fingers against the exhaust ports to find that they were slippery (polished) too while cleaning them. Makes me wonder if I really do have this Euro-R head and the cams.. as well. Hopefully. Anybody know how to indentify a pair of Euro-R cams.

trooper0641

bbbumppp for more info

trooper0641

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trooper0641 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bbbumppp for more info</TD></TR></TABLE>



heres a pic of a Euro-R H22 intake manifold stamp... so it says. PDE HF-1

t3am 83rd

Back from the dead for answers.

rash

bumping for awesome info