5th Gen Prelude NA Motor Parts Availability?
03-02-2016, 07:57 AM
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5th Gen Prelude NA Motor Parts Availability?
I am the 2nd adult owner of my 2000 Prelude. Currently has 124k on the clock. Car is literally mint, mechanically as I've maintained it as such and it rarely gets driven between 5-6,000 miles/year. I've got a head that's been rebuilt with all the good stuff, (to keep it simple), ported/flowed and gasket and port matched.
I plan on freshening it up as soon as the weather warms up. The plan is to gauge all the stock OEM clearances, remove and replace wear parts as required. With the engine in the car, (I have a garage, Bendpack and Dynojet available to me), I'd like to increase the compression to 11-11.5 using FRM compatible pistons.
Can someone point me in the direction of a vendor that is knowledgeable and experienced with this particular mod?
This is a street driven 5 speed car that I've chipped an OBDI computer for, and it runs pretty well for what it is.
I'd just like to grab any additional torque and horsepower gains I can get while I'm inside.
I'm not interested in power adders of any kind, just the best possible gains I can get out of a NA motor with a good tune.
Thanks!
I plan on freshening it up as soon as the weather warms up. The plan is to gauge all the stock OEM clearances, remove and replace wear parts as required. With the engine in the car, (I have a garage, Bendpack and Dynojet available to me), I'd like to increase the compression to 11-11.5 using FRM compatible pistons.
Can someone point me in the direction of a vendor that is knowledgeable and experienced with this particular mod?
This is a street driven 5 speed car that I've chipped an OBDI computer for, and it runs pretty well for what it is.
I'd just like to grab any additional torque and horsepower gains I can get while I'm inside.
I'm not interested in power adders of any kind, just the best possible gains I can get out of a NA motor with a good tune.
Thanks!
03-02-2016, 09:08 AM
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Re: 5th Gen Prelude NA Motor Parts Availability?
Nippon makes type s style pistons that will do the job for you.. Or go to hmotors and pick up a set of oe type s pistons. Both will work with the h22 sleeves.
you should have any wrist pin compatibility issues with your model year.
Do you know if your block is "a" or "b" bore?? Some are a mix of both. That could factor especially with the OE type s pistons becasue they are bought in a or b bores.. The Nippon type s are just made to 87mm bores which on some h motors might actually be a little tight, the key here is a good machine shop that can make sure your cylinder wall clearances are proper. sometimes a light hone can clear it out just enough, as long as the shop knows how to handle frm.
I would leave all your bearings after inspection if they look ok and just make sure they are within service limits, Hondas bearings wear very little as long as the engine is properly maintained and the motor overall is made with pretty tight tolerances, the old bearings will actually have a little less drag than new ones because the bearings to the crank and rods will be nicely polished to each other from use.
Look into a lightweight flywheel while you're in there, fidanza makes one, I believe they used to make 2 one was a little heavier but now I can only find the 9lbs models. Fx racing has one if you're on the cheap.
you should have any wrist pin compatibility issues with your model year.
Do you know if your block is "a" or "b" bore?? Some are a mix of both. That could factor especially with the OE type s pistons becasue they are bought in a or b bores.. The Nippon type s are just made to 87mm bores which on some h motors might actually be a little tight, the key here is a good machine shop that can make sure your cylinder wall clearances are proper. sometimes a light hone can clear it out just enough, as long as the shop knows how to handle frm.
I would leave all your bearings after inspection if they look ok and just make sure they are within service limits, Hondas bearings wear very little as long as the engine is properly maintained and the motor overall is made with pretty tight tolerances, the old bearings will actually have a little less drag than new ones because the bearings to the crank and rods will be nicely polished to each other from use.
Look into a lightweight flywheel while you're in there, fidanza makes one, I believe they used to make 2 one was a little heavier but now I can only find the 9lbs models. Fx racing has one if you're on the cheap.
03-02-2016, 09:32 AM
#3
Re: 5th Gen Prelude NA Motor Parts Availability?
If you are putting new pistons in, I would remove the engine from the car to have a machine shop hone or bore/ hone to ensure correct p2w clearance, even with oem type-s pistons.
Either get a set of the over bore type s pistons, or find some mahle golds in the compression you want, and a set of rods, that should be decent for the bottom end without going to a bigger crank from an H23.
Next step would be cams and the appropriate breathing mods i.e. bigger intake and throttle body etc.
Either get a set of the over bore type s pistons, or find some mahle golds in the compression you want, and a set of rods, that should be decent for the bottom end without going to a bigger crank from an H23.
Next step would be cams and the appropriate breathing mods i.e. bigger intake and throttle body etc.
03-03-2016, 08:47 AM
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Re: 5th Gen Prelude NA Motor Parts Availability?
Nippon makes type s style pistons that will do the job for you.. Or go to hmotors and pick up a set of oe type s pistons. Both will work with the h22 sleeves.
you should have any wrist pin compatibility issues with your model year.
Do you know if your block is "a" or "b" bore?? Some are a mix of both. That could factor especially with the OE type s pistons becasue they are bought in a or b bores.. The Nippon type s are just made to 87mm bores which on some h motors might actually be a little tight, the key here is a good machine shop that can make sure your cylinder wall clearances are proper. sometimes a light hone can clear it out just enough, as long as the shop knows how to handle frm.
The OEM block is a H22A4. I plan to dial bore gauge each cylinder and of course will make piston size selection, (piston to wall clearance), a main consideration when selecting new pistons. Based on what I've seen in these motors which much higher mileage than mine is that the FRM coating is pretty resistant to wear. I've been told by several local machine shops that more harm than good can be done trying to restore the Honda specified 60 deg. hone pattern. Best to properly fit new pistons to spec and install new rings.
I would leave all your bearings after inspection if they look ok and just make sure they are within service limits, Hondas bearings wear very little as long as the engine is properly maintained and the motor overall is made with pretty tight tolerances, the old bearings will actually have a little less drag than new ones because the bearings to the crank and rods will be nicely polished to each other from use.
Agree on the bearings approach, as long as everything is Honda FSM spec.
Look into a lightweight flywheel while you're in there, fidanza makes one, I believe they used to make 2 one was a little heavier but now I can only find the 9lbs models. Fx racing has one if you're on the cheap.
I've already got an aftermarket clutch assy. and lightened flywheel picked out to help with the performance. All good advice that I agree with. Thanks.
you should have any wrist pin compatibility issues with your model year.
Do you know if your block is "a" or "b" bore?? Some are a mix of both. That could factor especially with the OE type s pistons becasue they are bought in a or b bores.. The Nippon type s are just made to 87mm bores which on some h motors might actually be a little tight, the key here is a good machine shop that can make sure your cylinder wall clearances are proper. sometimes a light hone can clear it out just enough, as long as the shop knows how to handle frm.
The OEM block is a H22A4. I plan to dial bore gauge each cylinder and of course will make piston size selection, (piston to wall clearance), a main consideration when selecting new pistons. Based on what I've seen in these motors which much higher mileage than mine is that the FRM coating is pretty resistant to wear. I've been told by several local machine shops that more harm than good can be done trying to restore the Honda specified 60 deg. hone pattern. Best to properly fit new pistons to spec and install new rings.
I would leave all your bearings after inspection if they look ok and just make sure they are within service limits, Hondas bearings wear very little as long as the engine is properly maintained and the motor overall is made with pretty tight tolerances, the old bearings will actually have a little less drag than new ones because the bearings to the crank and rods will be nicely polished to each other from use.
Agree on the bearings approach, as long as everything is Honda FSM spec.
Look into a lightweight flywheel while you're in there, fidanza makes one, I believe they used to make 2 one was a little heavier but now I can only find the 9lbs models. Fx racing has one if you're on the cheap.
I've already got an aftermarket clutch assy. and lightened flywheel picked out to help with the performance. All good advice that I agree with. Thanks.
03-03-2016, 09:12 AM
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Re: 5th Gen Prelude NA Motor Parts Availability?
If you are putting new pistons in, I would remove the engine from the car to have a machine shop hone or bore/ hone to ensure correct p2w clearance, even with oem type-s pistons.
Trying to avoid removing the block from the car unless it's absolutely necessary, based on wear and p2w clearance issues. Many of my local machine shops have suggested leaving the FRM 60 degree hone pattern alone, (as it might still be visible upon dis-assembly), and accurately gauging the bore diameters and just installing new rings.
Either get a set of the over bore type s pistons, or find some mahle golds in the compression you want, and a set of rods, that should be decent for the bottom end without going to a bigger crank from an H23.
I like the Mahle Gold series pistons you mention and understand that they are FRM compatible right out of the box. A new set of rings and I could be good to go. Once I dial bore gauge the bores and get the actual diameters I'm sure that'll have have a lot to do with which direction I go. As for rods....? I feel fairly confident the factory rods should support the horsepower the motor will make. Sure they're cheap insurance, but I'm trying to work smart and on a budget where and if possible.
Next step would be cams and the appropriate breathing mods i.e. bigger intake and throttle body etc.
Trying to avoid removing the block from the car unless it's absolutely necessary, based on wear and p2w clearance issues. Many of my local machine shops have suggested leaving the FRM 60 degree hone pattern alone, (as it might still be visible upon dis-assembly), and accurately gauging the bore diameters and just installing new rings.
Either get a set of the over bore type s pistons, or find some mahle golds in the compression you want, and a set of rods, that should be decent for the bottom end without going to a bigger crank from an H23.
I like the Mahle Gold series pistons you mention and understand that they are FRM compatible right out of the box. A new set of rings and I could be good to go. Once I dial bore gauge the bores and get the actual diameters I'm sure that'll have have a lot to do with which direction I go. As for rods....? I feel fairly confident the factory rods should support the horsepower the motor will make. Sure they're cheap insurance, but I'm trying to work smart and on a budget where and if possible.
Next step would be cams and the appropriate breathing mods i.e. bigger intake and throttle body etc.
The only thing I haven't really thought about is cams. The performance capability for these is all over the place. Ultimately I'll need something that'll pass OBDII smog every 2 years, but really shine once I get to Vtec rpm. I'm leaning more towards a strong mid-range cam, (Car is a street beater), but I have seen remarkable performance gains on the Dyno by simply advancing / retarding the stock cams.
Any other thoughts or comments? I'm open to suggestions and ideas and want to go with what's proven and what works. Thanks!
03-04-2016, 06:14 AM
#6
Re: 5th Gen Prelude NA Motor Parts Availability?
With the intake, Many people have found good gains by deleting the IAB butterflies, and porting out the whole manifold. If you search on here for ported H22 manifold you should find what I am talking about. You can probably open the TB hole to 70 without getting into the Idle air passages, but it will take careful work. My 76 required me to eliminate that system.
Cam wise, there are a few options, and it sounds like you may be in the range of the Skunk2 Tuner 2 or Tuner 3 cam, or the Pro1 if you can deal with the difference in low end drive-ability and idle, but bumping compression will help. There are also offerings from Crower, DDtech, etc, or if you can find the fabled Jun cams without paying the cost of new, they are a great choice haha.
To be honest, if you want to spend the money once on it, maybe look into doing a 95mm crank and the proper rods and pistons for the compression you want, and Pro1 cams. Open up all the breathing, tune it right, and it is great fun, super fast, yet streetable. Pretty much what my engine was, but budget constraints have come back to bite me more than once. Last time was a cam gear slipping and all 16 valves hitting on my new head. I have a stock jdm H22 in it for now, but the big boy is awaiting time and money to go back together haha.
Cam wise, there are a few options, and it sounds like you may be in the range of the Skunk2 Tuner 2 or Tuner 3 cam, or the Pro1 if you can deal with the difference in low end drive-ability and idle, but bumping compression will help. There are also offerings from Crower, DDtech, etc, or if you can find the fabled Jun cams without paying the cost of new, they are a great choice haha.
To be honest, if you want to spend the money once on it, maybe look into doing a 95mm crank and the proper rods and pistons for the compression you want, and Pro1 cams. Open up all the breathing, tune it right, and it is great fun, super fast, yet streetable. Pretty much what my engine was, but budget constraints have come back to bite me more than once. Last time was a cam gear slipping and all 16 valves hitting on my new head. I have a stock jdm H22 in it for now, but the big boy is awaiting time and money to go back together haha.
03-04-2016, 12:22 PM
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Re: 5th Gen Prelude NA Motor Parts Availability?
With the intake, Many people have found good gains by deleting the IAB butterflies, and porting out the whole manifold. If you search on here for ported H22 manifold you should find what I am talking about. You can probably open the TB hole to 70 without getting into the Idle air passages, but it will take careful work. My 76 required me to eliminate that system.
Cam wise, there are a few options, and it sounds like you may be in the range of the Skunk2 Tuner 2 or Tuner 3 cam, or the Pro1 if you can deal with the difference in low end drive-ability and idle, but bumping compression will help. There are also offerings from Crower, DDtech, etc, or if you can find the fabled Jun cams without paying the cost of new, they are a great choice haha.
To be honest, if you want to spend the money once on it, maybe look into doing a 95mm crank and the proper rods and pistons for the compression you want, and Pro1 cams. Open up all the breathing, tune it right, and it is great fun, super fast, yet streetable. Pretty much what my engine was, but budget constraints have come back to bite me more than once. Last time was a cam gear slipping and all 16 valves hitting on my new head. I have a stock jdm H22 in it for now, but the big boy is awaiting time and money to go back together haha.
Cam wise, there are a few options, and it sounds like you may be in the range of the Skunk2 Tuner 2 or Tuner 3 cam, or the Pro1 if you can deal with the difference in low end drive-ability and idle, but bumping compression will help. There are also offerings from Crower, DDtech, etc, or if you can find the fabled Jun cams without paying the cost of new, they are a great choice haha.
To be honest, if you want to spend the money once on it, maybe look into doing a 95mm crank and the proper rods and pistons for the compression you want, and Pro1 cams. Open up all the breathing, tune it right, and it is great fun, super fast, yet streetable. Pretty much what my engine was, but budget constraints have come back to bite me more than once. Last time was a cam gear slipping and all 16 valves hitting on my new head. I have a stock jdm H22 in it for now, but the big boy is awaiting time and money to go back together haha.
Thanks for your additional knowledge and recommendations. I'm getting closer to getting into the motor. I've selected the lightened flywheel and clutch assy. and have a larger TB picked out along with a fuel rail and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Injectors will be adjusted based on dyno pulls and F/A demands. All the required monitoring gauges are in place so if anything goes array I'll see it as soon as it occurs.
Because the car is @ 130k adult driven/maintained miles, I'm optimistic I can expect reasonable Honda specs serviceable wear limits. Plan is to pull oil pan, in the car, push the piston /rod assys. out the top and dial bore gauge the cylinders. Already have a race prepped head assembled with proven port/polish and gasket/port matching done. Of course it'll be going back together with either Nippon Type S or Mahle Gold series FRM compatible 11.5:1 pistons and ARP hardware. As for the bottom end, I'll pull a couple main bearing assys. and gauge wear to ensure they're Honda spec serviceable and inspect/gauge rod bearings accordingly. Likewise, the bottom end will be re-assembled with ARP hardware also. Piston rings will be Honda/Mahle gapped accordingly. The only 2 questions I have at this point, the answer to one of which alludes me, Is will the OBD1 distributor trigger a CEL with the factory OEM OBDII ecu at emissions testing time? And 2, what's the best all round cam set for a daily driver with a goal of 240+ hp out of a N/A motor? A lightened flywheel and street/strip friendly clutch on the order of 30-40% + holding capability and perhaps a Honda OEM LSD is already part of the plan. Still haven't decided what to do with the extra intake and how far to go with it if i decide to do it. Increasing the throttle body to at least that of the S2K diameter will be done to feed the demand as well as larger injectors. The jury is still out on how much time refining the extra intake on the bench with regard to flowing the runners, port matching, adding a Richlite spacer to increase plenum volume and perhaps eliminating the plenum butterflies if warranted.
I'd appreciate any shops with this knowledge base and real world mods I'm debating , and thanks in advance for your guidance! I've got to buy my parts, (clutch, flywheel,pistons,cams etc.) Might as well be one of this website sponsors. I'll gladly spend my money with a source of supply that's willing to help me make these informed choices in the name of performance.
Anybody following this thread that can recommend a shop here on the sight with proven results and the claims to back it up, would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks! V1
Last edited by Velocity1; 04-21-2016 at 01:59 AM.
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