Damaged rear axle - Honda-Tech


Damaged rear axle

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Old 01-04-2017, 04:55 AM   #1
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Default Damaged rear wheel assembly

Greetings,
New user, first post. Glad to be here.

My daughter has a 2015 Fit. She was hit in the RR, and the vehicle was repaired. According to the documents, the axle was replaced (I saw the accident photos - can't see how it could have survived). She was assured that the frame was checked for square, and wheels aligned. Fast-forward a year, and a new alignment. The RR wheel toe-in is out of spec (high) by 2x the max value. My mechanic says that rear wheels are not adjustable, so the axle must is bent. My daughter assures me that she has not hit anything (like a curb) since the repair was completed. Her pristine wheel covers bear this out.

While my daughter calls her insurance company, I'm trying to figure out what went wrong with the repair. Is there another part that was damaged and not replaced? Was the new axle installed incorrectly? Could the new axle be bent from the git-go? She had other issues with the repair shop, so my brain immediately goes to the dark side.

I'm anticipating that the repair shop will push back, and the insurance company may do the same, so I want to understand all I can about the parts, the install, etc. so I can figure out what this will cost (OOP) to repair. I shutter at the thought that the entire axle needs to replaced again.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by hondafitdad; 01-04-2017 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:12 AM   #2
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Default Re: Damaged rear axle

The rear of the fit does not have any axles. These are front wheel drive vehicles. If they mean the rear subframe, then that would be one whole component and a pretty big job.

That being said, it's the only way these vehicles can be out as there is no OEM adjustments. They can be adjusted with shims but almost no shop will do this... Did you receive proof that the vehicle was aligned after the initial repair? A print out of some sort? Almost sounds like the technician who initially "fixed" it fudged the numbers, unfortunately really easy to do with these newer alignment machines.

Does that RR tire show signs of uneven wear? Cupping/feathering?

-Amp
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Old 01-04-2017, 09:16 AM   #3
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Default Re: Damaged rear axle

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Originally Posted by SIR-G Amp View Post
The rear of the fit does not have any axles. These are front wheel drive vehicles. If they mean the rear subframe, then that would be one whole component and a pretty big job.

That being said, it's the only way these vehicles can be out as there is no OEM adjustments. They can be adjusted with shims but almost no shop will do this... Did you receive proof that the vehicle was aligned after the initial repair? A print out of some sort? Almost sounds like the technician who initially "fixed" it fudged the numbers, unfortunately really easy to do with these newer alignment machines.

Does that RR tire show signs of uneven wear? Cupping/feathering?

-Amp
Amp,
Thanks for the response. Yea, not an axle - I am way too old school! I helped out my daughter and husband as best I could, but tried not to be the nosy dad. As it turns out, that was probably a mistake. I should have micro-managed this from the start. My daughter said that she doesn't see anything related to an alignment printout, so I would have to pursue that with the body shop...hopefully they'd have something in their file. Based on my other interactions with them, fudging would be the order of the day. Or, no alignment at all. Of course, my word against theirs.

While the insurance adjuster's notes do say "replace axle," I now realize this is certainly all the parts that compose the RR wheel assembly. I need to find out exactly what was replaced. My concern, of course, is that they'll double-talk my daughter, and deny any wrongdoing with me. I have to essentially accuse them of screwing up, which I expect they will vehemently deny.

As for tires, I just rotated them. They have about 14k on them since the repair, and no obvious signs of cupping. I guess it's just a matter of time.

Forgot to mention the numbers in initial post. The range for the rear is 0-24 degrees. The LR is spot on. The RR is 53.

I think her insurance company would consider paying out, as if she hit a curb (ie. new claim)e, rather than a bad repair. However, it's a safe bet that her premiums will rise. Alternative is OOP, which you say is expensive.

Rock and a hard place.
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:14 AM   #4
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Default Re: Damaged rear axle

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Originally Posted by hondafitdad View Post
Amp,
Thanks for the response. Yea, not an axle - I am way too old school! I helped out my daughter and husband as best I could, but tried not to be the nosy dad. As it turns out, that was probably a mistake. I should have micro-managed this from the start. My daughter said that she doesn't see anything related to an alignment printout, so I would have to pursue that with the body shop...hopefully they'd have something in their file. Based on my other interactions with them, fudging would be the order of the day. Or, no alignment at all. Of course, my word against theirs.

While the insurance adjuster's notes do say "replace axle," I now realize this is certainly all the parts that compose the RR wheel assembly. I need to find out exactly what was replaced. My concern, of course, is that they'll double-talk my daughter, and deny any wrongdoing with me. I have to essentially accuse them of screwing up, which I expect they will vehemently deny.

As for tires, I just rotated them. They have about 14k on them since the repair, and no obvious signs of cupping. I guess it's just a matter of time.

Forgot to mention the numbers in initial post. The range for the rear is 0-24 degrees. The LR is spot on. The RR is 53.

I think her insurance company would consider paying out, as if she hit a curb (ie. new claim)e, rather than a bad repair. However, it's a safe bet that her premiums will rise. Alternative is OOP, which you say is expensive.

Rock and a hard place.
To me this was not a quality assessment of the damage that was done. I (being a Honda Technician and knowing what to look for) would have instantly told the insurance company to replace the rear subframe. It's pretty much a requirement when the rear of a Fit is damaged to the point where the alignment angles (again, not adjustable) are out.

At this point, I'm honestly not sure what to suggest. Hopefully the insurance will help you out, but it sounds like it needs a rear subframe.

-Amp
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Old 01-04-2017, 11:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: Damaged rear axle

The subframe could have been replaced...I have yet to see the paperwork. Regardless, whatever was done was done wrong. If the rear subframe was not replaced, I will have to build a case that this was a significant oversight. Your input is helpful here, thanks.

The insurance company is a key player here...so I am not optimistic. I know what you're thinking..."his daughter is mega-screwed!"

And here we go...
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Old 01-04-2017, 07:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: Damaged rear axle

Funny honda says it an axle beam. Here is the process from Honda so you can sound intelligent when you start making your complaint.
EDIT: this works best using Internet Explorer some other browsers the photos don't show.

This is for all the components:
http://hondafitjazz.com/manual3/index.html

This is how it's removed and or replaced.
Honda Jazz / Honda Fit GE8 2009 onwards Online Repair Manual
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Old 01-05-2017, 05:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: Damaged rear axle

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Originally Posted by claymore View Post
Funny honda says it an axle beam. Here is the process from Honda so you can sound intelligent when you start making your complaint.
EDIT: this works best using Internet Explorer some other browsers the photos don't show.

This is for all the components:
Honda Jazz / Honda Fit GE8 2009 onwards Online Repair Manual

This is how it's removed and or replaced.
Honda Jazz / Honda Fit GE8 2009 onwards Online Repair Manual
Unbelievably helpful. Thanks for taking the time to post this. I have grabbed some text and a few diagrams, then annotated them for my daughter & her insurance company. If I assume that the axle beam is new - and straight - then there must be something else that is not to spec, and is pushing the axle beam forward on the right side, which would push in tire.

Last night, my daughter told me that her insurance company was very sympathetic, and is working on a solution. Fingers crossed.
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:51 AM   #8
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Default Re: Damaged rear axle

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Originally Posted by claymore View Post
Funny Honda says it an axle beam. Here is the process from Honda so you can sound intelligent when you start making your complaint.
Thanks claymore, that is absolutely correct and I apologize for the incorrect information. Brain fart and used the wrong name. Alldata shows this is a 2.7 hour job as well. So, if they try to say it's more I can send you the information upon request so you can have that as well.

-Amp
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Old 01-05-2017, 08:02 AM   #9
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Default Re: Damaged rear axle

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Originally Posted by SIR-G Amp View Post
Thanks claymore, that is absolutely correct and I apologize for the incorrect information. Brain fart and used the wrong name. Alldata shows this is a 2.7 hour job as well. So, if they try to say it's more I can send you the information upon request so you can have that as well.

-Amp
So, 2.7h to replace the axle beam. Got it. My concern is that the area where it bolts to the frame is not to spec. I'm referring to the rear of the well, around the mud flap area. If that section is pushed forward, the toe-in would be pushing left, which it is. The RR corner was pretty banged up, which is why I'm concerned that it's more than the beam. Then again, they may have fixed the corner and tried to repair/reuse the beam. I'm still waiting for my daughter to dig up the paperwork.

This is good stuff. Thanks again.
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