first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
09-15-2010, 06:11 PM
#1
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first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
so...i keep reading on the webz that burned exhaust valves are common with the first gen CR-V b20. this surprised me as i know a bazillion people swap these into civics/integras and drive them hard/a lot. so, what's the story? i found a CR-V i like, 83k, one owner, blah blah - carfax shows all dealer maintenances done at the honda dealer, but nothing re: the valves. oh, it's a '99.
any info on this supposed issue?
any info on this supposed issue?
09-15-2010, 06:18 PM
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Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
so...i keep reading on the webz that burned exhaust valves are common with the first gen CR-V b20. this surprised me as i know a bazillion people swap these into civics/integras and drive them hard/a lot. so, what's the story? i found a CR-V i like, 83k, one owner, blah blah - carfax shows all dealer maintenances done at the honda dealer, but nothing re: the valves. oh, it's a '99.
any info on this supposed issue?
any info on this supposed issue?
in for info.
09-15-2010, 08:39 PM
#3
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Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
I just had an exhaust valve break on a B20 because I didn't adjust the lash right after a timing belt change. You live, you learn lol.
09-16-2010, 06:07 AM
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Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
ok, i forgot until i looked it up - the issue was supposedly related to lack of adjustment. in all of my experiences, the only time a mal-adjusted valve will cause degredation issues is if the lash is too tight. if it's too loose it'll be noisy, and i'd imagine wear away the tappet/stem, but maybe that's just on SOHC.
in for info.
in for info.
09-16-2010, 07:42 AM
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Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
No, its the same on anything, if theres not enough clearance the valve can burn, if theres too much it will be noisey. My mother just bought an '01 CR-V last week so i've been meaning to look into this. If they have enough clearance though there shouldn't be an issue. The thing I find weird is they have the same head as a B18B and you never hear tell of people burning exhaust valves on them.
so weird, especially when you consider your last sentence. i agree.
09-16-2010, 08:40 AM
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Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
Right, that's what i'm saying...on everything that seems to be the way it works, but with the CR-V people have reported that if you lag with the adjustment interval you can end up burning a valve up. apparently there is a TSB for it because it was such an issue. that is opposite of what i'm used to in that if you lag on an adjustment interval the valvetrain will just become noisey.
so weird, especially when you consider your last sentence. i agree.
so weird, especially when you consider your last sentence. i agree.
Its not the only thing i've seen where valves become too tight if you neglect to do a valve adjustment. Dad has a '97 tacoma that was like that, when we we checked the exhaust valves some of them had no clearance at all, we got lucky and it hadn't burnt any valves (btw, toyota has a completely stupid setup for valve adjustments in the 3RZ-FE, they don't have rocker arms, instead they have a bucket with a shim on top of the valves and the cam runs directly on that, fewer moving parts but it means you have to pull the cams to adjust the valves and you have to buy shims from toyota at $15 each for whatever clearance you need) Valves can get tight over time from the face of the valve hammering on the seat and making the seat thinner btw.
09-16-2010, 10:33 AM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
ive always wondered this myself. the honda TSB says to adjust them every 30k. and i know its not just fiction because i bought my crv with a burnt valve (cheap) and the exhaust valves were EXTREMELY tight. i couldnt get a .001 feeler gage in any of them.
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09-21-2010, 11:35 AM
#8
Former Moderator
Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
Is this not the same, or related to the B20Z engines supposedly having valve seat wear where the valve sits a touch deeper in the head, causing misfire codes?
...or is this another completely crappy thing about the B20 engine altogether?
...or is this another completely crappy thing about the B20 engine altogether?
09-21-2010, 11:59 AM
#9
Former Moderator
Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
Wow I just read TSB #03-038.
Scary.
Basically it verified everything I'd read here about the dreaded exhaust valve issue where they receded into the cylinder head.
This scares me furthermore because the later model JDM B20s we commonly install as B18 LS engine replacements might have the same issue one day.
Do the actual B18A/B engines or B20B engines have this issue?
Originally Posted by TSB#03-038
03-038
November 5, 2004
Applies To:
1999-01 CR-V-ALL
Rough Idle, Hard to Start, Poor Engine Performance, or MIL Comes On With DTC P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, or P0172
(Supersedes 03-038, dated December 19, 2003)
Updated information is shown with asterisks and black bars.
SYMPTOM
The engine idles roughly, is hard to start, performs poorly, or has the MIL on with DTC P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304 (cylinder misfire), or P0172 (fuel system too rich).
PROBABLE CAUSE
One or more exhaust valves have receded into the cylinder head.
CORRECTIVE ACTION
Inspect the valve clearance and, if necessary, replace the cylinder head.
PARTS INFORMATION
WARRANTY CLAIM INFORMATION
In warranty: The normal warranty applies.
Failed Part: P/N 12100-P75-010
H/C 5604970
Defect Code: 00503
Symptom Code: 03203
Skill Level: Repair Technician
Out of warranty:
Any repair performed after warranty expiration may be eligible for goodwill consideration by the District Parts and Service Manager or your Zone Office. You must request consideration, and get a decision, before starting work.
INSPECTION PROCEDURE
1. Remove the cylinder head cover, and check the valve clearance on all exhaust valves.
^ If any of the valve clearances are below 0.09 mm, go to step 2.
^ If any of the valve clearances are between 0.09 and 0.16 mm, adjust the valves to specification (0.16 to 0.20 mm). Return the vehicle to the customer.
^ If the clearances are within specification, disregard this bulletin and look for other possible causes (ignition, fuel injection, etc.).
2. Ask the customer if the valves were adjusted shortly before the problem occurred.
^ If the valves were recently adjusted, readjust the valves to specification.
^ If the valves were not adjusted, proceed to REPAIR PROCEDURE.
REPAIR PROCEDURE
*Replace the cylinder head:
^ See page 6-16 of the 1997-01 CR-V Service Manual.
^ In ISIS, enter the keyword CYL HEAD, and select Cylinder Head Removal and Cylinder Head Installation from the list.*
NOTE: The exhaust valves and seats may be damaged (burnt or cracked) to further indicate that the cylinder head has a problem.
November 5, 2004
Applies To:
1999-01 CR-V-ALL
Rough Idle, Hard to Start, Poor Engine Performance, or MIL Comes On With DTC P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, or P0172
(Supersedes 03-038, dated December 19, 2003)
Updated information is shown with asterisks and black bars.
SYMPTOM
The engine idles roughly, is hard to start, performs poorly, or has the MIL on with DTC P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304 (cylinder misfire), or P0172 (fuel system too rich).
PROBABLE CAUSE
One or more exhaust valves have receded into the cylinder head.
CORRECTIVE ACTION
Inspect the valve clearance and, if necessary, replace the cylinder head.
PARTS INFORMATION
WARRANTY CLAIM INFORMATION
In warranty: The normal warranty applies.
Failed Part: P/N 12100-P75-010
H/C 5604970
Defect Code: 00503
Symptom Code: 03203
Skill Level: Repair Technician
Out of warranty:
Any repair performed after warranty expiration may be eligible for goodwill consideration by the District Parts and Service Manager or your Zone Office. You must request consideration, and get a decision, before starting work.
INSPECTION PROCEDURE
1. Remove the cylinder head cover, and check the valve clearance on all exhaust valves.
^ If any of the valve clearances are below 0.09 mm, go to step 2.
^ If any of the valve clearances are between 0.09 and 0.16 mm, adjust the valves to specification (0.16 to 0.20 mm). Return the vehicle to the customer.
^ If the clearances are within specification, disregard this bulletin and look for other possible causes (ignition, fuel injection, etc.).
2. Ask the customer if the valves were adjusted shortly before the problem occurred.
^ If the valves were recently adjusted, readjust the valves to specification.
^ If the valves were not adjusted, proceed to REPAIR PROCEDURE.
REPAIR PROCEDURE
*Replace the cylinder head:
^ See page 6-16 of the 1997-01 CR-V Service Manual.
^ In ISIS, enter the keyword CYL HEAD, and select Cylinder Head Removal and Cylinder Head Installation from the list.*
NOTE: The exhaust valves and seats may be damaged (burnt or cracked) to further indicate that the cylinder head has a problem.
Basically it verified everything I'd read here about the dreaded exhaust valve issue where they receded into the cylinder head.
This scares me furthermore because the later model JDM B20s we commonly install as B18 LS engine replacements might have the same issue one day.
Do the actual B18A/B engines or B20B engines have this issue?
Last edited by B18C5-EH2; 09-21-2010 at 12:28 PM.
09-21-2010, 12:06 PM
#10
Former Moderator
Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
Sorry to ***** it up, but I could not find any TSBs regarding this for any Integras or the older CR-Vs with the B20B engine.
09-21-2010, 12:43 PM
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Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
It seems like its just a B20Z thing. But i'm not sure if its due to honda's abnormally long valve adjustment interval on those models or if there is an actual issue. There are tons of B18A/B18B engines out there that have 200,000 miles on them that probably haven't had a valve adjustment for the last 150,000 miles and don't have issues. Burning valves on an Integra is just about unheard of around here.
09-21-2010, 12:47 PM
#12
Honda-Tech Member
Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
not sure why it says only 99-01 crv's....my 98 crv experienced the problem. i wonder if it has to do with the 2 different head castings pr8, and p75. ill look tonight when i get home and see what head my 98 crv has.
from this b20 faq
https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/b20-non-vtec-faq-guide-including-p8r-head-information-1467903/
it sounds possible that 96-98 crv's had a p8r head. i just scanned the article so forgive me if that is clarrified somewhere in there.
for what its worth, ive never heard of an ls motor burning exhaust valves. if the heads/valves/springs are the same....but the cams are different....could it be that the cam is the culprit?
from this b20 faq
https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/b20-non-vtec-faq-guide-including-p8r-head-information-1467903/
it sounds possible that 96-98 crv's had a p8r head. i just scanned the article so forgive me if that is clarrified somewhere in there.
for what its worth, ive never heard of an ls motor burning exhaust valves. if the heads/valves/springs are the same....but the cams are different....could it be that the cam is the culprit?
09-21-2010, 12:48 PM
#13
Former Moderator
Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
Yeah I'd be willing to bet there's more abused old DA Integras running around that have never had a valve adjustment, and they're not sinking valves into the head like CR-Vs are as "new" as 2001.
10-01-2010, 04:27 AM
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Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
Its not a valve adjustment issue at all it's a poor manufacturing problem, like the bullitin says and other replies the valve seat gets pounded up into the head causing the clearance to diminish then there is no clearance and the valve does not seat tight causing burned valves...look at GM and there inline five cylinder, there valve seats are falling out lol I would expect that from a GM though....i am looking at a smoked out valve from a 99 CRV right now, very common...new head fixed and runs perfect...too bad though.
11-21-2010, 05:49 AM
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Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
I picked up an 01' last month with 238K miles. Original owner, always garaged (interior & exterior super clean). Anyhow, I bought it at a really good price with the expectation/intention of overhauling the motor over the Christmas break.
Going over his service receipts he had a $2800 bill back in 07' which includes replacing all the exhaust valves, machining the head, T-belt & water pump etc.
As of now, the car has burned about 1.5qts of oil in the past month (morning start-up and it smokes until it gets warmed up). I'm not sure if it's the piston rings or valve seals.
Considering the exhaust valve issue and possibly other issues with the head, I'm thinking about using a B18A/B head for the rebuild. They're abundant & I can get one for cheap.
Has anyone considered the B18A/B when doing an overhaul?
If you're having issues with the exhaust valves or head in general, wouldn't it make sense to just replace the head w/ the B18A/B?
From what I've gathered both heads are essentially the same as the B20Z w/ a slightly different cam profile (lift/duration). I don't think I'd lose any power doing this.
Might swap intake manifolds too, depending on how it fits (just got in my AEM CAI).
Thx in advance for any solid advice.
Going over his service receipts he had a $2800 bill back in 07' which includes replacing all the exhaust valves, machining the head, T-belt & water pump etc.
As of now, the car has burned about 1.5qts of oil in the past month (morning start-up and it smokes until it gets warmed up). I'm not sure if it's the piston rings or valve seals.
Considering the exhaust valve issue and possibly other issues with the head, I'm thinking about using a B18A/B head for the rebuild. They're abundant & I can get one for cheap.
Has anyone considered the B18A/B when doing an overhaul?
If you're having issues with the exhaust valves or head in general, wouldn't it make sense to just replace the head w/ the B18A/B?
From what I've gathered both heads are essentially the same as the B20Z w/ a slightly different cam profile (lift/duration). I don't think I'd lose any power doing this.
Might swap intake manifolds too, depending on how it fits (just got in my AEM CAI).
Thx in advance for any solid advice.
11-21-2010, 09:49 PM
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first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
hi, even i was surprised when i know a bazillion people swap these into civics/integras and drive them hard/a lot.I usually keep this reading on the webz that burned exhaust valves are common with the first gen CR-V b20.
11-22-2010, 07:22 PM
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Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
Buddy of mine just picked up a '98 5 speed with a burnt valve for $900 So you can add another '98 to the list. I still don't understand why B18Bs don't have this issue.
12-01-2010, 12:08 AM
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Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
LOL, I just seen this, but funny thing, my P8R head has two burnt valves, 1 in cylinder 4 exhaust left side, and cylinder 3, exhaust left side. Compression numbers cylinder 1-4: 199, 205, 135, 145. Could be a reason for lack of power as well...
08-09-2017, 04:23 PM
#20
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Re: first gen CR-V, exhaust valves, and you.
Ok I've got a 99 crv LX 2wd,a few months back I got a cel and it was a misfire on cylinder 2 and 4,took it to shop had valves done and everything checked out, compression is good across all 4 cylinders, cel went away then came back a week later,bad o2 sensors, I checked the cat and it was bad,replaced cat and both o2 sensors, cap and rotor,plugs and wires,I do oil changes and tranny fluid changes every 2500,it has a funny idle problem now,where when I drive it then come to a stop light I have to pull back on the gas pedal for it to go down, yesterday it started sputtering at take off then clear out, cleaned the idle air control valve cleared the problem up,I'm still getting a cel,haven't had it checked yet but will tomorrow, it flashes below 20mph then shuts off past that,I haven't replaced the injectors or cleaned the throttle body, it's all factory parts besides what ive replaced, I've been told the dizzy could be bad,any info would be greatly appreciated
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