JMZ400

EDIT 12-16-14 Skip down to Post #24 to see pics and "How To".


I'm looking for someone who has used the TRS090 Sanden Compressor (from EG) in their EF using the factory EF Sanden style hoses from 88-91 Sanden EF TR70. I have a VX D15z1 swap and am hoping I can just bolt it in and go.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

It will only work with the 92-93 R12-designed TRF090. NOT the 94-95 R134a designed TRS090. The hose fittings are different sizes and electrical is different.

To make the TRF090 work on an EF, you need to use the EG compressor bracket on the block since the compressor has a different bolt pattern from the EF's TR70. Not sure if there is space for the stub sticking out for the EG's lower torque mount so you might have to grind it off.

JMZ400

Thanks for the reply. So the actual teardrop shaped connection is different? I gess all R12 and R134 connections are different?

JMZ400

Disregard. Thanks to your info I have found a local shop that can tig the R134 fittings on my R12 hoses.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

I think the wiring for the compressor clutch is different too. 2-wire on the TRS090 vs 1-wire on the TR70 & TRF090.

JMZ400

Edit:8-13-2014

There website and fitment listing for the 4993 were wrong after speaking with one of thier engineers.


Ok I have to revive my thread. I went to Sanden's website and they list a model #4993 TRS090 that will fit 88-2000 civics. I emailed their tech division and they claim that it will work in the CRX but it is strictly a R134A compressor. Has anyone used this 4993 Sanden in replace of the TR70? Also it is listed as a single wire.

JMZ400

I'm trying to install the Sanden 4993 (original 94-95 etc. Civic Sanden) in my EF and need a compressor fitting that allows the discharge line to exit toward the passenger side and route up under and around the cooling fan as on the CRX. The civic/crv line both exit toward the drivers side and curl up.

In photos of the 1997 CRV discharge line it looks as though the non compressor end has the same block fitting as the compressor end and if bolted to the comprerssor in reverse would then acomplish my passenger side exit. No one around here has them in stock for me to look at. Can anyone confirm both ends of that suction hose are the same and would bolt to the Sanden charge port? I could then cut it off and have a new hose made. Also no shop in Orlando I went to visited wants anything to do with welding/designing custom aluminum compressor lines. Plenty to do the hose but not the aluminum part.

cappinnapz

On the aluminum portion as long as you would have any end that can seat into the compressor (where the o-ring fits) like a boneyard end you cut off from a 94-95 model you are looking at, you can make your own custom line using a compression fitting and regular equal diameter tubing. Bend and shape your own piece of tubing, those lines are typical very thin and bend easily. That's how its done at most shops when particular A/C tubing rots or breaks and the dealer no longer supplies it.

JMZ400

Thanks for the reply. Yes I figured this would be a real no brainer as well but after visiting several shops and not coming away with any confidence from them I ordered ordered the 97 CRV line today. I think its going to get my hard line off the compressor closer where it needs to be and can then have the shop attach the CRX hose to it. I'll you posted. That is if anyone is interested.

James89DX

I'm really interested in this after going through years of A/C issues in my EF and blowing several thousand dollars on it by this point.

Years ago I did a totally "proper" R134a conversion which gave me awful cooling performance. EF condensers just are not adequate for R134a conversions.

Then I spent all the time and money to revert back to R12 (Thankfully I have a stash of R12). Almost immediately after that the stupid eBay rebuilt Sanden TR70 started leaking again. This was my second bad experience with a rebuilt Sanden TR70.

Then 2.5 years ago I did it all over again with ALL new parts - new condenser and new evaporator (condensers/evaporators are notoriously hard to totally flush so I wanted to go new for 100% proper oil and charge levels), new Honda pressure switch, Four Seasons rebuilt Sanden TR70 with 2 year warranty. Did all of that in spring of 2012, again with R12. Keep in mind I had a 2 year warranty on the compressor.

Now of course just 2.5 years later the rebuilt compressor is leaking. Checking around with some A/C places it seems the TR70's are notorious for repeated failures on rebuilds and many don't even work on them or sell rebuild parts for them because of this.

So now I'm stuck deciding if I want to screw around with another rebuilt TR70 or buy one of the Chinese clone new ones or try something along the lines of what you're doing. So how did this turn out for you?

Are you also removing your R12 condenser for one of the R134a EG units?

JMZ400

James- Here is where I am...

Have bought the following new:
OEM NEW Honda Evaporator with Exspansion Valve
New Parallel Flow Condenser for EF (Check Amazon for Shepherd Auto Parts $58.66 shipped)
New CRX 134A Barrier Hose Suction and Discharge Lines
New 1997-2001 CRV Discharge Line

Yet to Purchase:
NEW Original Sanden TRS090 Single Wire Compressor for R134A (Sanden Part#4993)
Custom Hose to combine the new CRX line with the CRV line.

The Plan:
I have a 94 D15z1 swap and have the original Aluminum A/C bracket so this will be straight forward for me. Assuming dimensional wise it will fit like any other D series set up.

Bolt Compressor on.

The condenser end of the new CRV discharge line appears to bolt to the discharge port of the Sanden 4993 (so using it backwards) This will allow my discharge line to exit off the compressor to the left like the OEM CRX line and wrap below, around and across the top of the cooling fan to the top of the condenser just like OEM. This is the custom part that will require that I have the CRX and CRV lines spliced to use the CRV end on compressor and CRX end to the new Parallel Flow Condenser.

All other parts remain basically unchanged from original CRX set up. Of course all hard lines will be removed, flushed and reconnected with the proper O rings.

My reasoning behind this plan is that it allows me to purchase a NEW Sanden originally designed for R134A (Better pricing over older TR70 too) avoiding any contamination of the system thay may come from using compressors built for and shipped with R12 oil etc.

I have not yet bolted the first part on, but plan to do so in the coming week after compressor arrives. Hoping this set up will be as close to an originally designed CRX R134A as possible. Feel free to identify holes in my plan before I start.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Sounds exciting. Hope it works out.

Be aware that parallel flow condenser is the key to making R134a work. I have it with a completely stock system and it's perfect.

FYI: The receiver/drier is considerably larger on the EF than on the EG. Check your oil capacities for both systems carefully. A brand-new Sanden unit will be shipped with a full oil charge of SP-10 already inside it. This charge is designed for the EG and not the EF. IF the EF requires more oil than the EG, you will want to buy a can of SP10 and carefully measure & add the difference. Be sure to use Honda/Sanden oil cause you don't want to mix.

Now if you are buying an aftermarket compressor, it comes with who knows what oil. You should probably drain it all out of the compressor and flush it with SuperCool PAG 46 (with or without dye). It's super high quality and inexpensive. Of course you could use Honda/Sanden SP10, but it costs way a lot more.

Additionally, the refrigerant capacities are different too. Fill to the CRX quantities less the recommended percentage by Sanden's retrofit procedure on their website. If I remember correctly, it's the same as an old NSX. I even ordered the NSX AC-system sticker for my Rex. I "think" it was 400g (down from 450 or something like that).

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Honda Sanden SP-10 38897-P13-A01AH


Sanden SP-10 http://www.action-ac.com/AC-Part/41-50013.html


SuperCool PAG 46

JMZ400

Thanks 94EG!
I have read many of your post's back from 2012 when you did yours. The compresser will be new Sanden. I've gone many lengths to make sure of that, as buying compressers are very confusing. I also need to buy a dryer but want to make sure it's 134a compatible. Don't see any that have it in writing??

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

From all that I've read, the only desiccant they use these days is R134a compatible. No worries about that. I purchased 4-seasons for my EF & EG because they specifically advertised that fact.

I think I ordered from Summit racing cause they were local (to Reno) and would match any online price I could find.

BTW: Here is a link to Sanden's Retrofit procedure. They mention charging 5% less (by weight) than you would with R12. http://www.sanden.com/objects/retro.pdf

JMZ400

Wow! Thanks for the link. In the end I'm really trying to make this a true "bolt on 134a" swap using an original R134a compressor and Parallel condenser. People have questioned why I would bother using the 5th gen compressors but heck even the Sanden retrofit instructions say the following:

The use of R134a in mobile A/C systems designed for R-1 2 refrigerant causes higher discharge pressures (as much as 10-15%) and necessitates changing the compressor lubricant from mineral oil (5GS) to PAG oil (Sanden's SP-10 or SP-20) to ensure compatibility. These changes result in greater wear to the internal components of the compressor. Therefore, to ensure consistent and expected reliability, Sanden does not recommend using R134a in systems and compressors designed for R-1 2. However, Sanden understands the realities of the automotive service markets and consumer preferences. If a retrofit is required, please follow the vehicle manufacturer's published retrofit procedures. Ensure all work done complies with SAE recommended practices as described in J1660 & J1661

Without getting too much in depth, I wonder what if any effect the compressor cc displacement has on performance/pressures. The original TR70 is listed by Sanden at 70cc and the TRS090 is 85.7cc. Does this change the oil amount required? Something to think about.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

I believe the oil volume is proportionate to the refrigerate volume as it mixes with and gets carried throughout the system by it. Personally I would charge according to the CRX system specs.

But.....you are pioneering new territory. Please keep record of all your info here so the rest of us can benefit should our TR70's crap out. :D

BTW: Here is my EF performance test chart. It's good for using in MS-Paint to draw perfect vertical & horizontal lines. Much more accurate than scribbling over a bad photo copy or something. Plus I think I added more percentage lines than the book had.

JMZ400

Charging. This leads me to another thought. Sanden says to lower the 134a amount by about 5% by weight for the retrofit. Is this only because they are assuming you are using a non 134a compressor? In my case I will be using a 134a compressor so I'm thinking that rule may not apply to me?

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

You can always add more if your performance chart doesn't measure up. Here is the 94-95 EG chart for you also. Probably worth filling out both and comparing results to see how it goes.

JMZ400

Well im still collecting parts to make this happen although its going to be winter before i get it done! I just got my Brand New Original Sanden compressor today. Looks great and has got me pumped again. I plan on doing ac build with pics.

Grifty

I'm keen to see how this goes!

I myself installed a brand spanking new oem ac system in my car, only for the compressor shaft seal to sh*t itself a year later.....

I've been wondering if I can use a D series R134a EK compressor and get the different compressor fittings welded onto the original lines.

94eg!

iTrader: (2)

Of course you can. You will definitely need a parallel flow condenser though.

JMZ400

I will be taking a group photo of all parts I use before I begin installing along with photos during the install. Including the Parallel Flow Condenser

JMZ400

Well this is the week to install the eg ac system in the ef. Im taking photos along the way since I've no one else thats done it.

James89DX

94eg!

I've been meaning to ask you - I remember seeing your picture of your parallel flow condenser from an old thread or two (or maybe it was on the CRX forum). I'm curious, how do you know exactly that its parallel flow?

I ask because over the past month, I've been repeatedly sent the wrong condenser (wrong in that it doesn't match their part image in the catalog) by Rock Auto. The condenser they keep sending me is identical to yours that you've described as parallel flow. They keep telling me it's misboxed but it's happened 3 times now.

If you order Pro brand condenser 7014236 what you'll get is identical to the parallel flow condenser I remember seeing from your old post(s). And you can see this one is fairly poorly made (notice the whole thing is curved over toward the right). The other two I were sent weren't bent, though.





To get the true OEM style you have to buy the Spectra. Even the chespest no-name condenser in their catalog is identical to the one above, just painted black.

Anyway, I can find no reference to this being parallel flow. The general company-wide description for Pro brand parts sort of broadly describes their parts as being something like "latest parallel technology" or something to that effect but does not necessarily mean EVERY item they sell is parallel flow. Not that I don't believe you - I am genuinely just curious for my own knowledge - what exactly indicates/indicated to you that it's parallel flow? Is it just the rounded tube outer sections and upper pipe? How do you tell? The core seems a good deal thinner to me than the OEM style unit.