CrxChicken

Hi I have had my 1990 dx for a while now

There are no modifications on it and it has original everything.

1.5L Automatic SOHC

Anyway the other day I was driving down the highway and after a sputter the car died. I pulled to the side of the road and ended up having to get it towed home to where its sitting now.

What I have checked.

Ok I pulled the line from the fuel filter to the throttle body and I do get fuel pressure when the car cranks.

Next since my Tach was flickering for the past 6 months every once in a while I figured it was the Igniter and changed that.

I used an ohm meter and checked the coil and it seems ok
I get almost 0 from A to B and through the coil from A to the Coil Output I get about 10,000 which seems to be in spec.

THEN for some reason I checked the Cap and my Ohm Meter was flat dead when checking the posts from the coil to the rotor

So I replaced the cap and Rotor.

After that did not work I put a Testlight COUGH into the Coil Output and the other end to Ground and did not see a flash when I cranked the engine.

I have also tried a Timing Light on it even sticking #1 wire into the coil as best i can and I see no spark on the timing light. although I dont know how well it would have jumped the 1/4 inch because wires dont fit deep into the coil....






So.... so far

Engine Cranks

No strange lights or Check Engine on the Dash

No mashing sounds of valves OUCH
Rotor turns in Distributor

Get Fuel to the throttle body

Replaced
Cap Rotor
Igniter & it Has Good ground I hope heh
Coil seems to check Good

Pretty much at my witts end here

Umm what are the other parts in a distributor that could go bad other then the ignitor and coil?

I see there is a pickup off of the rotor shaft Probably a cam sensor
Not sure if that is fried.

The car is old but has been relatively well taken care of
I have had it for 8 years now with no problems maybe put 80k miles on it.


I DID NOT CHECK if TDC on the crank lines up with #1 plug wire in the distributor I will do that tomorrow if I have the time and it does not rain.

I actually have a belt and water pump to put in it ... but ... thats for after i get it running if I can


How do I make sure this is not a Computer problem???????
I have no access to a known good one to swap it out.


Hope you guys can help

Its a DX but i want to save it

sanimalp

When you turn over the engine, does the distributor spin? and do you have a check engine light? if the distributor is spinning, you could have saved some trouble by just pulling a spark plug and grounding it near something and watching it spark while the car turns over.

Have you tested the ignition switch in the steering column? It will cause the exact symptoms you describe, and is also a common electrical problem.

you can test it before you change it to make sure it is not bad by following the flow chart in this link.. http://mycomputerninja.com/~jon/IgnitionSwitch.html

4drEF

Could be a bad ground. Try hooking a jumper cable direct from an ear on the distributor to the negative post on your battery.

sh!ft

check alt or computer? wat about fuses? u did say the needles did flicker a bit didnt they??

CrxChicken

Yes the Rotor in the distributor spins

Check engine seems normal it comes on for about 3 seconds when you first turn the key then goes out.

I have not checked the ignition but I do get power to the distributor

CrxChicken

I replaced the alternator in the spring with a new one I am charging the battery now due to all the cranking.

I pulled the ignition fuse under the dash seemed good
visually checked the dash and engine compartment fuses nothing stuck out.

I do get power to the distributor and through the coil to the ignitor

sanimalp

did you do the ignition switch test I linked to? I have had to replace that switch in every EF and DA i own.. its a common failure point and will cause your symptoms.

CrxChicken

It has been raining pretty good all day so maybe tomorrow I can do that but I am not sure that is the problem.

I looked at my manual today trying to figure out the ECU and Cam Sensor Pickups in the distributor.

How do you test the signal from the ECU or does the ECU get info from the coil off the igniter ... have to check that tonight.

Might be the ECU is dead but I do not have another to swap in.


maybe it is worth checking
I took a look at the Wiring Diagram


The starter cranks the engine
so the selenoid connection should be ok
What is the starter signal? does it go to the ECU?

and

I get power to the distributor on the Black Yellow Wire hooked to the coil

I also get power to the igniter on both wires

Also on bottom pic the car died but prior to that sometimes the Tach would flipflop so I figured the ignitor was going.. People here have said when the ignitor goes it sometime causes that problem because the ignitor runs the tach

CrxChicken

I look at that second diagram and it is punching me in the face saying the coil must be bad but it tests good with an ohm meter within specs

full continuity through the coil to the ignitor

and about a 10k resistance through the coil to the output...

They say 9 to 13 is in spec

If the coil was open in the high voltage side that feeds the sparkplugs that would be something but it is not....

sanimalp

if the ecu was dead, you would see a solid red light. It wouldn't turn off until you shut the car off. If the cam sensor in the distributor was the problem, you would be getting a code 8 or 9.

do you hear the fuel pump priming? what does your fuel pressure look like? From all the stuff i have seen so far, IMO it does not look like a distributor/ignition/sensor electrical related problem.

here is what i think. All the important electrical sensors needed to run the car throw check engine light codes, and it sounds like you aren't seeing any. You have already been through the ignition system pretty thoroughly, so i don't think it is that either. The main relay is another commonly failing electrical component that could cause the symptoms you are seeing, but that is also tied in with the ignition switch.

So in my opinion, I would test the ignition switch according to the flow chart, and then test the main relay after that. Post up the results in this thread and we can keep going trying to figure this out.

CrxChicken

Yes like I said the Fuel Pump is pumping fuel

I Took the Banjo connector off of the Throttle Body
and I stuck it in a Coffee Can and while the engine was cranking
the fuel was pumping out of that connector.

I can not say if the Injectors are working
but I squirted Starter Fluid in the Throttle Body
and the car would not start

Thanks for the ECU Info
I went outside and pulled the cover to check its Model Number

By the time I got back inside my nose was about frozen HA this is october and I am not in Minnesota

Thanks for continuing to help it is helping me think were to look next

4drEF

Did you try using a jumper cable to verify your engine ground?

CrxChicken

Hey ... kinda raining out but I went out and tried your idea using my jumper cables as a ground strap... nothin engine just cranks

And that got me thinking I dont see a ground strap from my wheel well to my crank pully side motor mount... i hope i didnt take it off when i painted the engine compartment about 7 years ago heh anyway .....

no luck so far...

I am testing some other stuff now and I will tell you guys later... any advice would be really appreciated.

CrxChicken

ok so update for today I had about an Hour and a half to work on the car

I pulled the rotor cap and lined up TDC by rotating the Crank

It seems good

Points to #1 and then to #3 spark plugs as I rotated the crank around so at least I am not out 47° Deg or something because the belt slipped 20 teeth

Then I rechecked the dash board fuses visually and with a test light to ground

and swapped out about six with new ones i had just for kicks

The connector to the cam sensor pickups in the coil is giving me trouble ... dont really want to break the connector but I might try to run a test on the sensors if i can tomorrow. If they are bad i think it means replace the distributor since they are not readily available for purchase.


I need to run a test on the ECU but I dont see any dashboard problems with it. The Check Engine comes on then goes off after 3 seconds and i dont see a flashing light for codes.

Coil could also be bad but it tests good.
I should say it tests good with my OHM meter but there is no output.


You guys got any ideas?

If i have time tomorrow maybe i will check the ignition switch

Someone was saying that if the injectors are not firing then spark is restricted maybe i will do an injector pickup test i understand they are suppose to blink your test light.

nitrousballa2

i'm having the EXACT same problem on a 97 prelude.fuel pump kicks on and the injectors are working because plugs are wet.went to post office shut car off came back out and nothing"will turn over but not start".

i would appreciate any help i could get pm me if you like or here.

CrxChicken

This guy seems to have the right idea

If you get stuck you can still get to the parts place

HAHAHAHAHAH

CrxChicken

I just ran outside after reading a bunch of different help requests
Just as the sun was almost all the way down
put my key in turned on the ignition

Pulled the connector to the injector and they are not hot with my test light to battery negative....

thats just messed up....

think the main relay blewup?

but would i not get spark too?

My fuel Pump is pumping like a bastage
Last time the main relay went i had no fuel

that is going to freak me out for the rest of the night

_GUS_

I am having the same problem with a 91 crx dx. I have tested everything under the sun by the service manual and they haved passed, even sent the ECU off to be tested. Its still hanging out in the shop..

NEUWBEA

The main relay actually contains two individual relays.
One relay is energized whenever the ignition is on, and it supplies the battery voltage to the ECU, power to the injectors, and power to the second relay.
The second relay is energized for 2 seconds when the ignition is switched on before starting, and when the engine is running, to supply power to the fuel pump.
Looking at the relay tab opening facing up, top right=8,top middle=4,top right=2,bottom left=7,bottom center left=5,bottom center right=3,and bottom right=1.

Attach the positive battery terminal to the #4 terminal and the negative battery terminal to the #8 terminal of the main relay. Then check for continuity between the #5 terminal and the #7 terminal of the main relay.
If there is continuity, go to step 3.
If there is no continuity, replace the relay and retest.
Attach the positive battery terminal to the #5 terminal and the negative battery terminal to the #2 terminal of the main relay. Then check for continuity between the #1 terminal and the #3 terminal of the main relay.
If there is continuity, go to step 4.
If there is no continuity, replace the relay and retest.
Attach the positive battery terminal to the #3 terminal and the negative battery terminal to the #8 terminal of the main relay. Then check for continuity between the #5 terminal and the #7 terminal of the main relay.
If there is continuity, the relay is OK.
If the fuel pump still does not work, go to harness test.
If there is no continuity, replace the relay and retest.

If this is not the case than you should check to see if the relay harness is bad. It usually has led me to a bad wire or sometimes even to the fuse in the engine bay right side(passenger) controling the computer(ECU fuse).

Keep informed.

Thanks

CrxChicken

I forgot that I repositioned the Ground Strap so I am good there just forgot about it.... heh

Haven't had time yet to yank out the main relay
I get power to the fuel pump
I get a main relay click when the fuel pump turns off

I get one blink at the ECU
I get power to the distributor

I have to check the power to the injectors again
when the key is on but engine not cranking
my test light is not showing power

I have a page on it and the main relay


Tuesday or wed maybe if i can

not sure
Glad I dont need it to go anyplace I work at home right now



If I do need a relay which i probably do... is Honda still the only place to get one?

o well I will keep you guys up to date when I have more news


thanks again


QUOTE=NEUWBEA

The main relay actually contains two individual relays.
One relay is energized whenever the ignition is on, and it supplies the battery voltage to the ECU, power to the injectors, and power to the second relay.

The second relay is energized for 2 seconds when the ignition is switched on before starting, and when the engine is running, to supply power to the fuel pump.

CrxChicken

Ok since it was nice out for kicks i tested the Main Relay

It tested good in all three relay tests

here is me doing it heh

Was thinking about repositioning it but the only place is to the ground wire behind the hood latch and I would probably kick it so I didn't




I have some parts ordered this week hopefully if it stays nice I will replace some more HA!

Still no idea exactly what is wrong though

CrxChicken

Well it fired up then died

I put a new coil and wires on it today and charged the battery

The engine ran real rough but it had been sitting for about 2 months so i let it sit running.

When I got out there was a bad smell mostly like carb cleaner or something...

I had not been using any....

then as I was putting the charger away it died

I tried to restart it once.... and no go

Then I gave up

I dont know ....

I will put the charger back on it tomorrow

I will see if i get spark tomorrow I HOPE i did not fry a new coil

Maybe its bad gas

really bumming me out

crawfo661

IF YOUR FUEL PUMP WORKS YOUR MAIN RELAY IS FINE. check all fuses, if you had flickering gauges you had bad ground or voltage spike, check to see if you burnt up wires or that ign switch

TRUcrxEr

you should check the engine timing

if ok, check compression

CrxChicken

yea thats what i thought too but I checked it anyway because this is driving me crazy heh

I drained my fuel today from my gas tank it was brownish red ... maybe just a dye indicator in the gasoline

anyway I drained it by jumping the 5 and 7 on the main relay and attaching a garden hose to my fuel line that comes off of the throttle body.

Got most of it out and then put a gallon and a half in and cleaned the lines. still a little brownish but the new gas i bought was a slight green tint to no color at all

ANYWAY
cleaned it out and
with a fully charged battery
I dont seem to be getting spark

All my fuses in the dash fuse box are good
as far as I can tell the fuses in my engine compartment look fine too

this is freaking me out now I think i have checked everything i can

Only thing i can do is the cam position sensor test tomorrow