ralphyrue

i purchased a d15z1 engine from a wrecking yard and when it arrived it had no distributor. i figured out that the distributor off my d15b8 engine that i was removing was not the right one and so i purchased a used one from someone on ebay. it was described as "92-95 Honda Civic Ex Distributor d16z6 Vtec MiniMe OBD1". the distributor off my cx engine had "TD41u" marked on the housing but the one i received had no ID marks that i could find but at any rate it bolted on just fine and the electrical plugs fit. as far as the ecu goes i purchased a "po7 a01". i know the 92 civic calls for a "po7 a00" but i was told by someone at a wrecking yard that the "a01" would work because the 92-95 d15z1 was all the same engine. well, i installed the d15z1 in my cx and wired it for vtec and egr and 5 wire o2 sensor etc. but then it wouldn't start. i took it to my mechanic and he got it started but said the spark plug wires were hooked up to the wrong firing order on the distributor, i had told him i had hooked them up by following a diagram on a honda service manual. he then got out his timing light and tried to adjust the timing to specs by rotating the distributor. he said he couldn't get the timing right because he could not get the distributor to rotate far enough. he said one option would be to grind out the holes on the distributor housing so he could rotate farther but otherwise his best guess was that i had the wrong distributor or the wrong ecu or some other wiring issue. he double checked the timing belt and said it was right on. any ideas or suggestions? i wouldn't think the ecu would be a problem because the distributor is the same from 92-95, right? i thought there were only vtec and non vtec distributors for 92-95. is there another type i am not aware of? could i possibly have the wrong year distributor. the person on ebay i bought the distributor from said he had bought it from a wrecking yard because he thought his was bad but it ended up being okay so he kept his and sold me the one he had bought. thanks for any help.

CivicSpoon

I'm guessing that your timing belt is off. The cam gear should be aligned with the 2 pointers on the cover, rather than aligned with the flatness of the head.


Your "mechanic" either isn't very good at what he does or just wanted to take the easiest route possible, to get your car out of his shop, if he told you to grind out the holes of your distributor. You're right about the VTEC and non-VTEC distributors being different, and there is no 3rd USDM distributor style for the '92-'95 Civics. And if it bolts to your head correctly with all 3 bolts, then it's definitely the correct one; the Z6 and Z1 (and JDM D15B VTEC) are oddballs like that.

The ECU you have will be perfectly fine. The A01 is just a slight update from the A00, and nothing was changed that would cause an issue.

Relic1

first - was the service jumper jumped when he tried to set the timing? amazing how many people forget that simple step.
if it wasn't there no way he'll get the timing right, the ECU will keep adjusting it and it will never stay at 16*.
second - timing belt off a tooth, I screwed this up myself when I had my VX, it's very easy to do. follow what CivicSpoon said. That page of the Helm is priceless.

ralphyrue

thanks for the replies. it really helps. i am trying to figure out my next move. i am still curious about why my mechanic had to move the spark plug wires to a different location on the distributor to get the car to start. i had them in the 1-3-4-2 position that i think it is supposed to be in and he had moved them to a 3-4-2-1 position. is this consistent with the timing belt being off a bit? anyway i am thinking i need to move the wires back the way i had them and adjust the timing belt by moving it a tooth. after moving it i will try to start the car and if it doesn't start then i will have to assume i moved it in the wrong direction, and try again. if it starts then i can move on to adjusting the ignition timing with a timing light and i will have to make sure i understand what relic1 is talking about on the service jumper. one reason why i had thought i had the belt on correctly was that i, in addition to lining things up by the marks, double checked it by putting a dowel down the #1 cylinder and rotating the crankshaft and then i stopped when the dowel stopped rising. i could see how i could be a little off though, because i stopped as soon as the dowel stopped rising but then i could go a little further before the dowel began to move downward; maybe i needed to go just a little further (the distance of one tooth). thanks for any additonal help.

ralphyrue

here is the latest. i found out my father in law had a timing light and so i borrowed it and tried to figure out how to use it; i had never done it before. i thought that maybe my mechanic had forgot to jump the service check connector like relic1 had referred to. so i got a paper clip to use as a jumper and the timing light and went to work on it myself. at first i thought i was having the same problem my mechanic had but then i was able to at least time the engine close and then i thought i had it quite close. i called my mechanic and he said he had used the jumper and he was sure the timing belt was on correctly. i took the car to him and had him check it himself and he said that the timing i had done was right on and muttered how that was really weird. the only thing now is that the car idles way down like it is about to die at times and then the check engine light comes on. i will check the plugs: they may have become fouled when the engine would not start. other than that, i am still wondering why the car runs with the spark plug wires hooked up to the distributor in a non standard way. anyone have any ideas on that? or is it something i don't need to worry about? thanks for any replies.

CivicSpoon

Are you sure he had the plug wires on wrong. It should be like this:


Then obviously it will be tilted, based on how it bolts to the head.

What check engine code are you throwing, that could be the key to your idling issues. Is the idle an up and down type of thing, or is it just constantly low? Definitely check your plugs though. If the engine was flooded from trying to start it, if you can, take out the plugs and take off the plug wires for half an hour to an hour to let some of the excess gas evaporate a little.

ralphyrue

here are some pictures. one shows what distributor i have and how it is currently wired. i had previously wired it according to the diagram above by civic spoon after i received the used distributor, but then the car would not start. My mechanic was able to get the car to start by rotating the wires around on the distributor. He thought i had it 180 degrees off but i was only able to install it one way and then he found that out to be true.
the other pictures show my sparks plugs. i have 2 plugs that i think look good, and the other 2 have all this dry sooty, carbon stuff on them. these are new plugs as of a few days ago and i have not run the car much. i will try to get an idea what the check engine light code is tomorrow but i thought i would post this right now while my son was here with his nice camera. the other thing i haven't checked is the valves to see if they need adjusted. could that improve the idle problem. Today, the check engine light did not come on until after the car was fully warmed up, and then it would be idling fine and then fairly abruptly it would idle slower and the check engine light would come on and then it would idle back up enough to keep it from stalling. I had noticed yesterday when i had shone the timing light on the timing pulley, the marks would stay steady when i had the jumper in, but then when i took the jumper out and tested the timing with the computer functioning, the marks on the timing pulley would jump back and forth, as if the idle was irregular

CivicSpoon

That plug wire order is definitely wrong. 1 & 4 are switched, and 2 & 3 are switched. Now that you have the ignition timing down, I'd switch the wires to where they should be. How old are the plug wires? If switching the wires doesn't do the trick, check to see if the wires are bad (misting some water on them with the car running and listening for an idle change).

If none of that changes anything, you should consider doing a compression test, specifically to test the valves. Of course after finding out the check engine light code too.

TomO

D15Z1 motors only like to run on the OEM NGK V-Power ZFR4F-11. Other plugs, especially iridiums will run like junk and misfire.

Relic1

agreed. Z1's are picky.


and yes your plug wires are wacky.
#1 cylinder is at the timing belt.
looking at the distributor cap from the passenger side of the car.
bottom = 2, left = 1, right = 4, top = 3

having it that far off will cause a low/unstable idle...

ralphyrue

i took my car to a garage to have them read my check engine light code. i didn't realize i could do it myself but they checked it and came up with a code 48 which they looked up and said it had to do with the heated 02 sensor. i went home and checked it myself and came up with the same thing:4 slow blinks and 8 fast ones and then i looked up the code online and it said "code48 LAF - lean air fuel sensor". i saw TomO's comment and went and bought the correct plugs and installed them. it seemed to idle better and so i drove around and it seemed to take longer for the check engine light to come on but it did eventually come back on. i rechecked the code and it was the same code 48.
my picture of the distributor can be a little hard to follow. if you follow civic spoons diagram where #1 starts where the "c" is on the distributor, and go clockwise it should be 1-3-4-2, but my wires, starting at "c" on the distributor go 4-2-1-3. it is like the wires have been rotated from where they are supposed to be by 180 degrees. i tried doing what civic spoon suggested and put the wires back on where they are supposed to be and tried starting the car but no luck, just a couple of small backfires was all it would do. i then switched the wires back and it immediately started. my spark plug wires are new. i checked the compression and hopefully got accurate readings. i rented the compression set from autozone but it had a flexible hose that i had to thread down through the valve cover and hoped it was on tight enough; it seemed to hold the pressure. the wrecking yard i bought the engine from said it was supposed to have compression readings at factory specifications but my readings were between 125-135 across the cylinders. is this considered on the low side?
anyway back to the 02 sensor issue. i wired the car for the egr, and vtec and the o2 sensor with my cx to vx conversion. do i need to be concentrating now on the o2 sensor and the wiring. this has been a learn as i go experience and i have never troubleshooted anything like this before. i did a little reading and sounds like i may need a voltmeter. i will double check my wiring and make sure things are hooked up the right way. i had ran wires for d8, d3, d16 to the c129 plug which are for the 02 sensor and i had cut the white wire at the C102 - 2 plug on my cx harness and moved it over to the c129 plug. this white wire was supposed to go to the d14 slot which also had to do with the o2 sensor. i tried to follow relic1's chart as a source at b18c5eg.com. the other 2 wires on the c129 plug hook up to egr things if i understand it right. i am now thinking though that i only ran 4 wires to the c129 6 pin connector, but the 02 sensor is a 5 wire sensor. so is there something else that needs to be hooked up? thanks for all the help. wondering what to concentrate on next. oh, forgot one other question. i had read a post somewhere about someone who had a nonvtec distributor and for diagnostic reasons had held the nonvtec distributor on the vtec engine and had someone else start the car to see if the distributor was the problem. is this okay to do, can it hurt anything. i was wondering about doing that to see if my car would start with the wires on correctly on the distributor, because i still have my nonvtec distributor.

ralphyrue

update: since the swap i hadn't really driven the car much, mainly just driven it around town a few miles, so i decided to take the car out for a good drive where i could really open it up. it seemed to bog down abit in 4th gear going about sixty and then it would get more power and then bog down again,then after driving a few more miles it seemed to smooth out. i kept driving it in mixed driving and hadn't had a single check engine light come on. i then drove it up a hill and i think i got a feel for what vtec can do, anyway it seemed to go up the hill with ease. i then tested the car in the type of driving where the check engine light would come on and i didn't notice any issues with the idle and the check engine light didn't come on. in about 45 minutes of driving i didn't get any check engine lights. maybe the car just needed to be driven awhile. i will try driving it again tomorrow and hopefully it will continue to behave.

2kdrift

i am having this same issue in my del sol. d15z1. timing belt looks good but i cant advance past 14 degrees. this is with service jumper conected. OP u ever find a solution?