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Hi I have a 95 civic dx im doing a head gasket job on. I squared away the head gasket part but now I got the timing belt on and setting the tension is being really trouble some. I've got my marks dead on cam and crank, I put the belt on in order crank,tensior,water pump,cam with tensior loose 180 degrees. I turn the assembly over in correct rotation counter-clock about 3 teeth and by the time I get to 2-3 tooth I just hear doink and the belt will be tight on cam long side loose on the other side and on the crank a couple teeth wont even be in there slots anymore. I don't know what to do anymore I've watched pretty much watched every timing belt video online and read every forum I could find. I've got to be doing something wrong. Also can I damage the valves by rotating the cam and crank at the wrong times? Any advice I appreciate its just really frustrating at this point. Thank you -Johnny
Once the belt is on you should allow tensioner to take up the slack. Don't keep it loose and then turn the motor. And yes Turning the motor without the cam and crank in sync can potentially damage valves.
I've got my marks dead on cam and crank, I put the belt on in order crank,tensior,water pump,cam with tensior loose 180 degrees.
I don't follow the service manual sequence of belt installation. It's most important to set the cam and crank at TDC1 and have the belt installed as tight as possible between 4 and 1. Therefore, I install the belt over the cam (4) first and then drop the belt straight down to the crank gear (1). Once you have the belt taut between points 1 and 4, while maintaining the cam and crank at TDC1, then slip the belt over the tensionser, water pump, and back to the cam. Don't move directly to belt tensioning at the point. First rotate the crank 2 revolutions counterclockwise until you again reach TDC1, at which point recheck whether the cam also at TDC1. If so, you're now good to go for belt tensioning. Remember never to turn the crank clockwise. Instead, go around the horn again counterclockwise.
I don't follow the service manual sequence of belt installation. It's most important to set the cam and crank at TDC1 and have the belt installed as tight as possible between 4 and 1. Therefore, I install the belt over the cam (4) first and then drop the belt straight down to the crank gear (1). Once you have the belt taut between points 1 and 4, while maintaining the cam and crank at TDC1, then slip the belt over the tensionser, water pump, and back to the cam. Don't move directly to belt tensioning at the point. First rotate the crank 2 revolutions counterclockwise until you again reach TDC1, at which point recheck whether the cam also at TDC1. If so, you're now good to go for belt tensioning. Remember never to turn the crank clockwise. Instead, go around the horn again counterclockwise.
This actually makes a ton of sense. Reading the FSM is confusing, at best. I never understood the tensioning procedure, and what I ended up doing (D16Y7) was actually pushing the tensioner by hand to tighten it to what I felt was an acceptable tightness. I then rotated it (counter-clockwise) a few revolutions to make sure the marks would still line up.
It sucks since these engines didn't have the typical grenade-pin that can just set the proper tension for you.
Is my procedure acceptable? Once you verify that you're at TDC after a revolution, you then tension the tensioner how? By feel like I did with mine? Sorry if it's a stupid question.
And for good measure, here's the FSM page that is confusing as all hell when put to practice ->
This actually makes a ton of sense. Reading the FSM is confusing, at best. I never understood the tensioning procedure, and what I ended up doing (D16Y7) was actually pushing the tensioner by hand to tighten it to what I felt was an acceptable tightness. I then rotated it (counter-clockwise) a few revolutions to make sure the marks would still line up.
It sucks since these engines didn't have the typical grenade-pin that can just set the proper tension for you.
Is my procedure acceptable? Once you verify that you're at TDC after a revolution, you then tension the tensioner how? By feel like I did with mine? Sorry if it's a stupid question.
And for good measure, here's the FSM page that is confusing as all hell when put to practice ->
I would say your method of tensioning is risky in my opinion.
For me following the FSM was pretty straightforward. I aligned the crank gear, made sure the cam gear was aligned, started the belt around the crank, tensioner, water pump and then for the cam I start on the left side so it is tight and the teeth line up perfectly, squeeze it on from left to right and verify both cam and crank marks after it slides on.
At this point I turned the crank counter clockwise (CCW) for 2 revolutions to TDC and verify my marks again.. I then proceed to turn the crank CCW another 4 full revolutions to settle the belt into place and then verify a third time my marks are dead on.
At this point I hand tighten the tensioner bolt with my small 3/8" ratchet so that I can then loosen it 180 degrees. Then I turn the crank CCW for about 3-4 teeth and hold the 1/2 inch ratchet on the crank with my foot to maintain the belt tension (valve springs back pressure likes to back up the belt some otherwise) and proceed to tighten the tensioner bolt snugly at this point. By snugly I go about 1/8 turn once it starts to be tight.
At this point I feel comfortable enough to release the tension off the crank ratchet and set my 3/8" drive inch-lb torque wrench and set it to the 33 ft-lbs. If I see the belt shift on only the right side of the cam gear then I know I didn't snug the tensioner enough and I redo the tension process. Only happened my very first go as I didn't do an 1/8 turn on the tensioner bolt when it started getting tight.
Anyways, after torquing the tensioner bolt I turn the crank a couple more times and bring it back to tdc, verify a 4th time the marks and then check the deflection of the timing belt on both sides of them cam. Both sides have deflected about the same amount for me and not very much when I do it this way. The belt feels snug but not overly tight.
Just had to redo tension Sunday when I replaced my cam seal and I've redlined it a couple of times today and still no issues with my new timing belt. Nor did I have any issues the few weeks of solid driving since putting on the timing belt the previous time I recently tensioned the timing belt with this method.
The hardest part is getting my foot onto the crank ratchet without loosing any of the tension created by the 3 teeth turn. After that it's pretty much a cake walk.
Thanks for the help guys! I figured out my problem and it actually was the dumbest thing ever. I didn't put the tensioner on the little peg on the non spring side . Once I had that I had no problem lol. This is why I need to pay more attention before I disassemble things. Much relieved thanks again. -Johnny
At this point I hand tighten the tensioner bolt with my small 3/8" ratchet so that I can then loosen it 180 degrees. Then I turn the crank CCW for about 3-4 teeth and hold the 1/2 inch ratchet on the crank with my foot to maintain the belt tension (valve springs back pressure likes to back up the belt some otherwise) and proceed to tighten the tensioner bolt snugly at this point. By snugly I go about 1/8 turn once it starts to be tight.
At this point I feel comfortable enough to release the tension off the crank ratchet and set my 3/8" drive inch-lb torque wrench and set it to the 33 ft-lbs.
So you hand-tighten it so you can then turn around and loosen it 180 degrees? I'm confused at that part. I understand how you're setting proper belt tension by rotating the crank 3-4 teeth CCW and maintaining the tension with your foot on the 1/2" ratchet. When you are actually tightening the tensioner bolt, don't you have to apply force to the tensioner itself, so it will shift where you need it and apply the proper tension to the belt? Or as you tighten it, does it also rotate and apply tension to the belt?
I'm glad I don't have to crack mine back open for another 40,000 or so, but I'm scratching my head trying to remember how the tensioner itself was properly set.
Turning the crank pulley three teeth puts tension on the tensioner spring. When you tighten the tensioner pulley bolt, you are simply locking the tensioner spring's tension.
Turning the crank pulley three teeth puts tension on the tensioner spring. When you tighten the tensioner pulley bolt, you are simply locking the tensioner spring's tension.
It finally makes sense... Sorry to go round and round with that one.
So you hand-tighten it so you can then turn around and loosen it 180 degrees?
Thank you for showing how this small snippet can be misleading as it stands.
I like to tighten the tensioner bolt so when I immediately turn around and loosen the bolt, I only loosen the 180 degrees (1/2 turn). Usually when I'm taking the belt off whether for replacement or any other reason, I tend to loosen the tensioner bolt more than just 1/2 a turn. Probably closer to 2 or 3 turns. I just don't ever take the bolt all the way out.
Anyways, so as to follow the manual, I have to tighten up the bolt so I can loosen to "spec".
Hope that clears up that little snippet as I can see how it could be misleading and obscure.
Thank you for showing how this small snippet can be misleading as it stands.
I like to tighten the tensioner bolt so when I immediately turn around and loosen the bolt, I only loosen the 180 degrees (1/2 turn). Usually when I'm taking the belt off whether for replacement or any other reason, I tend to loosen the tensioner bolt more than just 1/2 a turn. Probably closer to 2 or 3 turns. I just don't ever take the bolt all the way out.
Anyways, so as to follow the manual, I have to tighten up the bolt so I can loosen to "spec".
Hope that clears up that little snippet as I can see how it could be misleading and obscure.
So the point of them telling you to loosen the bolt 180 degrees is Honda telling you to "loosen it enough so it moves, but don't take it all the way off". Very misleading, Honda...very misleading!
If I didn't follow this particular tightening method (I think I pushed the tensioner by hand and then tightened), should I re-tension it? Is there a way to do this through the access hole in the timing belt cover, or would I need to basically tear it down again?
Or should I leave it? I've gone about 30k since I did the belt with no issues.
So the point of them telling you to loosen the bolt 180 degrees is Honda telling you to "loosen it enough so it moves, but don't take it all the way off". Very misleading, Honda...very misleading!
If I didn't follow this particular tightening method (I think I pushed the tensioner by hand and then tightened), should I re-tension it? Is there a way to do this through the access hole in the timing belt cover, or would I need to basically tear it down again?
Or should I leave it? I've gone about 30k since I did the belt with no issues.
I don't think anyone can answer this definitively. It can be many many miles before the problem rears it's face if there is a problem.
You don't have to tear it down for tension but without the timing belt cover off, you will be guestimating the 3 teeth turn.
You know the belt is situated as it's been run for 30K. So it would just be setting up your 17 inch socket and ratchet on the crank pulley bolt, loosening the tensioner, twisting the crank to your guess of the 3 teeth and holding, then tightening the tensioner.
So it could be done without taking the valve cover off but you would not be able to do any deflection verification or any other visual verifcations.
04-28-2015, 03:19 PM
Timing belt tension I need help
. Once I had that I had no problem lol. This is why I need to pay more attention before I disassemble things. Much relieved thanks again. -Johnny
