huttone

My 95 1.5 del sol has abt 185,000 miles. i was driving it then came to a stop sign and it shut down and all the antifreeze came out and it would not restart. A few mins prior to that I heard a noise coming from the motor. I had it towed home and it took off valve cover to verify it is timing belt break. I see some people saying that an engine can be pemanately damaged from such a breakdown. I purchased the water pump, timing belt kit fro Autozone. Am I wasting my time on the install? Is my engine shot?

slowDB7

Pull the head and find out if the valves are bent

EJ8mike

^^do this.

Original t-belt?

Laughing Man

the part that has me wondering is where you said that all the antifreeze came out... where did it come out from? was the coolant system empty when you checked or was it literally pouring out of the motor at some point?

TripleLude

You can put the new belt on and verify if the valves are bent. Turn it by hand and check for resistance without spark plugs installed (only with t-belt installed). If you feel no resistance, try to start it or check compression.

slowDB7

he might as well pull the head, it saves him time from having to retime, put new belt on, rotate engine, and pull belt back off if somethings wrong

Former User

You have a 50:50 chance or so that no valves were bent, so install new belt and then compression test the cylinders.

dpetro1

i was thinking the same thing

TripleLude

That might depend on who is working on the car. After a slip of 1 tooth, I swapped a t-belt in about an hour on a 2000 Ex D16y8. Didn't even put the alt-belt, AC-belt, or PS-belt back on for diagnostic purposes.

Was able to start the car afterwards and determined the valves are OK. Then did my compression test and determined the piston rings were terrible, which burned oil too fast, which caused oil starvation in the head-cam, which caused enough resistance to slip the t-belt.

It all depends on what you are diagnosing and how much experience you have. For me, I can do the above t-belt swap, valve diagnoses, compression test, start the engine, pull a head, and have pistons out in under 6 hours, including pre-cleaning of the bay. A little bit of sugar-free Red Thunder energy drink can go a long way with concentration and resolve.

fragmare

Umm... Where did the antifreeze go, exactly? If it all fell on the ground and the radiator drain plug and engine drain bolt were still in place, you might have bigger problems than a t-belt to deal with.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Catastrophic water pump failure?

crazyhouse2011

RonJ, how do you know that it's a 50 50? I always thought that if a timing belt broke on an interference engine you were f**ked unless you were really lucky.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Not with these engines. Usually you have a good chance nothing is wrong. But not from the sound of this.

fragmare

lol i'll add exploding water pump to the list of things i wish never to happen to my car while driving

crazyhouse2011

So is there a science behind this? I would think it would have to do with valve clearance, but only insomuch as that more valve clearance means your valves/pistons are less fu**ed.

strategy400

I took a 1995 220k B7 to a machine shop for a rebuild after a headgasket let loose. They found one slightly bent valve after disassembly and it hadn't been affecting the running of the car. It appeared the valve just wore into its new position and continued to do its thing. You could see the crooked wear pattern on the lip. I had done recent compression test before with nothing out of spec except low across all cylinders from mileage. The headgasket failed due to a stuck thermostat. Maybe the heat caused the valve to warp (it really only went up to 7/8 on temp gauge). The shop replaced the valve for $13 (now the rest of the parts, machining and labor was much more). I'm at 70k on rebuild.
I'd try the new belt and see what happens. Worst case is, you'll have to tear the engine apart anyway.
Either that or a leakdown test turning the cam/crank by hand to check for obvious damage.
Maybe check the valve lash for obvious out of spec conditions.
Use the evidence to make a decision.

huttone

Ok great info, now 2 more questions.
#1 When you say pull the head, do you mean to remove the valve cover gasket and look at stuff or is it deeper than that?

#2 I have a 14mm pully bolt that is starting to round out and is restricting my ability to get all my pullys off to dig into this t/b job. I can't seem to get a crescent type or closed 12 point wrench to grab it properly. The space between the pully bolt and inner fender are not great enough to get one of my special sockets onto it to destroy it. Is it recommened that I try to lift the engine high enough past the inner fender to try to get the clearance for a socket?

crazyhouse2011

#1 No pulling the valve cover off SHOWS you the head. You have to take the head off too. Let me try to make a picture out of words:

Valve cover
Bolts
Head
Bolts
Block
Bolts
Oil Pan

That pretty much is a basic top down view of the engine.

#2 I have no idea.

Good luck with your job. I'm not brave enough to attempt this, but then again, I only have one car.

strategy400

I would expend all other options before pulling the head. Even if you pull the head you will likely still have to dissemble it to really check the valves. Now you may as well do a valve job. While you're at it well hell might as well just rebuild the engine and have the block decked and head milled so you know your headgasket will seal.
Or, why not just do some external inspections (lash, leakdown) and if that looks ok put the new belt on and see how it goes... whats the worst that can happen, you'll have to get a valve job, rebuild your engine or get a replacement?

TripleLude

I had a t-belt slip 1 tooth due to lack of oil pressure in the head (think: cams riding journals dry). It ate 1 tooth on the t-belt and stalled out. Just enough to make the car not start, and not enough to bend a valve. First thing I did was put a new t-belt on (about 30 minutes to 1 hour) and I didn't even put the t-belt covers on, or any accessory belt. I did a compression test and then started it up. It did start and no valves were bent.

By the way, the t-belt which slipped had brand markings for Mitsubishi (who makes t-belts too). It was thin and pityful looking. Don't buy that brand.

huttone

Ok. I think I'm going to have to raise the motor to get a socket onto this 14mm pulley bolt. Do I just undue the mount bolts (how many mounts are there?).

And once loose do I just place a wood block on jack and start pumping or do I need one of those hoists?

p3p69

if the belt is already off there is no harm in turning the cam to make sure all the vales are functioning properly pull all the plugs first it should turn rather easily

strategy400

Unless you turn the cam and a valve opens when there is a piston in the way...

Maybe pull the plugs and stick a long screwdriver in each cylinder first to make sure all the pistons are halfway down. Then you can turn the cam and check the valve lash (I would think a bent valve might throw the lash/clearance off/open/loose a few thousandths).

p3p69

you will break the cam bolt before you will bend a valve

p3p69

but with no timing belt on and no spark plugs you should be able to turn the cam by hand