redm3turbo

I have been basically doing a complete OEM rebuild on a 99 civic. No swaps/no nothing, just taking a stock civic and making it like it just rolled off the assembly line....shes got pretty much everything either in perfect working condition- or new.

The only thing I haven't really touched is the suspension. I checked everything over- everything looks good- struts/springs/control arms/tie rods/etc. However they all look original as well. The struts ride fine, no leak and etc- however the rubber inserts look, well look like they have been driving on for the last 12 years-

I started looking into suspension bushings kits- and sort of want to change the rubber parts out to either new rubber OR- a polyurethane kit (such as energy suspension kits). I figure if I change it, might as well just go to polyurethane, and never have to think about it again-

The kit Im looking at----

Includes: front control arm bushings, front shock bushings, front end links, front sway bar bushings, front and rear coil spring isolator set, rear trailing arm bushing set, steering rack bushings, transmission shifter stabilizer bushings, front ball joint boots and front tie rod boots.

Has anyone done this kit? what difference did it make? The ride in my car now is fine- however Id like it to be "tighter" if you know what i mean? Its fine as is- but its not "tight"

I really have no desire to redo the suspension, I mean if a strut starts leaking or something--Ill change it, but at this point---it'd be stupid to change it. like i said, the rubber parts arent in amazing condition--(no rips/tears/melting etc) however they look old, and crappy.

So- to those that have changed over to poly kits- what did you get after? was it a better ride? tighter steering, etc?

Thanks

owneyboy

iTrader: (1)

this is noticeably beneficial and most common honda people overlook a good bushing kit. its not 100% necessary but if your gonna do a restoration/overhaul of suspension parts a good bushing kit is a must and replacements of ball joints over them rubbers and ball joints get wear and tear. Id recommend you changing out your ball joints with oem ones or at least something with lifetime warranty. for the bushings get OEM, hard race, pic, anything hard rubber type dont go for (energy suspension) polyurathane type. there are few exceptions but pretty much bushings along the lines of OEM is best. only down side would be pressing out and pressing in.

.. Energy suspension is overhyped. they bind easily and deform overtime and not very flexible. if you look up autoX(time attack) threads there will be good readings on bushing kits and reviews. the more recent the better of course.
ES bushings last around 2-5 years if lucky
OEM 10+ years

redm3turbo

yea, thats what I was figuring....oem gave me 12 years already....so, Id be MORE then happy with another 12 years, lol.

Corksil

I have every single ES bushing on my car available. I swapped every single bushing myself with a bench vice, torch, sawzalll, and basic tools. Not to say anything wasn't hard.

As for the ride, it's noticeably stiffer. I go over bumps and I feel them in the seat of the car, even with OEM padded seats. I currently have OEM suspension still...

What do you want to know specifically.. i'll check back on this topic if you get some specific questions up.

it's a stiffer ride, the bushings are a b!tch to change out (most) and I did every single ES part made for my car. I notice rattles in my car that I didn't notice before - but i haven't driven much since i replaced all bushings and blew the motor (putting car into storage)

Corksil

btw i have the del sol... this is well-known to be one of the weakest chassis that honda ever produced due to the targa-top design. i can imagine there wouldn't be as many rattles (indicative of chassis flex) in a civic chassis with a closed-roof design.

98civdx

Hard race or PIC both have hard rubber kits avaible, there also is Mugen. Well if your a baller. lol

Personaly, I'd steer clear of poly bushings. They can last quite a long time, however, myself and a number of other members have noticed it can depened on your climate. Some are more freindly then others. I'd much rather go with a rubber kit. You litteraly put it in and forget about it. No need to take anything off and lube it. (poly requires this)


Also, take a look at ball joints, both upper and lower, and tie rods. (upper ball joint replacement, requires new UCA)

Corksil

excellent points 98civic... the examine all of your ball joints for play and slop in their operation.

as far as having to 'lube' polyurethane bushings, I can attest that I have never 'lubed' mine and have had no issues whatsoever.

i have heard of problems with 'binding' - basically means that when you push down on the car, it goes down and the bushings provide enough friction that the force of the suspension does not allow the car to return to proper ride height. i have no experience with this on my car, it works fine with oem suspension.

as for taking things apart and lubricating, i have no issues either, and i have never lubed my ES poly bushings (note i have all poly -- lower control arm, lower shock mount, sway bar end link, upper control arm to subframe x2, upper shock mount, and the supplied ES ball joint boots) However I live in hawaii and we don't have winter or snow here. things never freeze where I live.

as for having to lube poly stuff, i have heard reports of people drilling tiny holes in their control arms, tapping the exposed end of the hole and threading in a grease nipple, and using a grease gun to periodically squirt grease through their newly drilled grease passage directly into where the bushing meets the control arm. personally i think this is a waste of time and I would never go this far - however it is an option.

all points taken into consideration - if you're going for an oem-spec rebuild for reliability and oem-spec performance in everyday driving....... go with OEM honda or pick a rubber kit with a durometer (hardness) close to OEM spec.

98civdx

How long have you had your bushings?

I have the ES sway bar bushings, and I'll lube them once a year or so.

When poly isn't lubed when it needs to be, it may and most likely will squeak.

I know 1 person that has almost every bushings ES has, and he installed zerk fitings, so he could lube them. He's got 5+ years on the bushings. BUT, at the price he is in it now, you could by rubber bushings and not worry about them.


OEM bushings can be VERY expensive. Some bushings you can't even get without buying the entire arm/part there are in.

In my opinon a hard rubber bushing kit is your best option.

Corksil

i didn't know you may have to buy full control arms to get the bushings installed. (I stand corrected and this makes sense as the oem bushings must be pressed in.)

yeh the 'zerg' kit, that's what the grease nipple setup was called.

i've put 20k on my bushings before I destroyed the motor. I will have my swap completed in the next week or two and I'll be adding to that 20k as soon as i get a tune and begin driving again. btw the 20k are 'hard miles' driven largely offroad with massive potholes, dirt/gravel roads, drifting turns at 40+mph... rally driving for lack of better terminology.

and if my ES poly bushings squeak, i've never heard them (not to say they don't) --- mostly i'm driving fast enough that i can't hear any squeaking over my VTAK. all jokes aside, mine might squeak but i've never heard them....

owneyboy

iTrader: (1)

what most people dont understand or misunderstand is a stiffer ride isnt always a better ride handling wise. tsk tsk

Izo

@10
Is that why F1 cars have wobbly components? Oh wait...
Elaborate instead of just belching a smelly fart our way, please.

98civdx

If he wanted to replace front ball joints he would need new arms, the bushings are all replacedable.

Well sence your car is sitting there, yank the metal inserts and greese them.

owneyboy

iTrader: (1)

what i mean is the generalization of upgraded suspension goes something like this "stiffer is better" ; meaning most people think that stiffer setup suspensions and higher spring rates make the car handle best. but in fact stiffer isn't always better. i couldn't be bothered spoon feeding.

redm3turbo

currently looking into hard rubber....

Izo

@14
...and what about the bushings? Giggity :D

Post some pix (of the bushings!) and let us know what you think once installed.

I've got an ES master kit sitting next to my desk - Will be a while till I get it installed in my Sol though - Probably not before the car goes into hibernation for the winter :S

Libertariat

Eff polyurethane. Hard rubber is where it's at

Good price on this PIC kit too!!

98civdx

^^ that. stay away from the ES mater kit. you'll end up spending quite a bit more then the PIC kit to replace the same amount of bushings.

Libertariat

$225 is a steal for a full bushing kit that uses durable rubber instead of poly. Still 40-60% stiffer than stock. Stiffer probably on older cars with worn out bushings.

98civdx

Just becuase I am bored.

Master kit- $153.12 Does not includ, Rear UCA bushings, Rear LCA bushings, Toe componsantor arm bushings

Rear UCA/LCA bushings- $123.57
Componsator arm bushings. $38.37

For a grand total of $315.36

ORRR buy all of that, for 225. Think about it!

What you get in the ES mater kit, that you don't get in the PIC kit.

ES, tie rod, and ball joint boots.
Sway bar bushings, endlinks, coil spring isolators, what ever the hell those are. Shift linakge bushings, and rack bushings. All of which can be bought, seperatly if you truely wanted them.