Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx!
12-29-2002, 06:00 PM
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Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx!
I'm getting ready to purchase my first motor and also do my first swap. I am excited as hell about starting this but at the same having some questions as I read different posts.....
I was reading up on OBD's and would like to see if I am on the right track.
This is copy / paste as I read it.
There are 4 well maybe 5 flavors of OBD that you should be concerned with. OBD stands for On Board Diagnotics. Basically the invention of electronic Fuel Injection was a good idea. Further followed by electronic engine control.
I am not familiar with anything older than 1988 and I dont know much about anything newer than 2000.
1988 - 1991 you have OBD 0 or pre OBD. This is found in all the older CRX's civic's, integra's, you name it between those years.
1992-1995 was OBD I. Basically it had everything OBD 0 had and then some. This helped to further fine tune the engine controls.
1996-1998 was OBD II. This was everything OBD I had and more. just change, emissions laws are getting stricter, trying to put out less polution, and making the engine more efficient.
1999-2000 was OBD II.5. Everything OBD II had and more but kind of a standard between all vehicle makers. check out http://www.obdii.com/ for more info.
2001 + is OBD III (so I've heard, havent played with any yet). however the 2001 integra is still OBD II and they never really went OBD II.5 like the civics did.
Its like this, OBD 0 ECU plugs differ from OBD I. OBD I plugs differ from OBD II. And so on. OBD I has more sensors/controls than OBD 0. OBD II has more sensors/controls than OBD I. You cant take an OBD II ECU and plug it right into your OBD I car. its like plugging a square peg into a round hole. it dont fit
Since I am most familiar with OBD I and II let me give you an example. OBD I cars came equipped with only 1 O2 sensor before the cat. OBD II had 1 before the cat and 1 AFTER the cat to make sure the cat was still working. OBD II also integrated a Crank Fluctuation sensor on the oil pump. And a fuel tank pressure sensor. OBD I uses 2 wires for the fuel pump relay and OBD II uses 1. OBD II B16A2's (99-00) use different injector harness plugs than OBD I cars. Same with IAC. IAC is also wired differently on OBD II than OBD I. The distributor's also vary between years.
What does this mean to you as an avid swapper?
Well here's the cool stuff. You cannot and I repeat cannot just swap out the under dash wire harness's. for 1 its a couple hundred dollars for the harness and 2 it wont fit. wires have different plugs, different components, and wired differently.
What you would NEED to do to make an OBD II motor work in an OBD I car... is to first, gather all the extra **** that OBD II has that OBD I doesnt. PTANK sensor, 2nd O2 sensor, etc. This is kind of a lost cause and way too much effort for what you are trying to accomplish. I'd rank you up there with the guy who swapped an NSX motor into a CRX, because he "could" and nobody "had".
Its totally pointless, your car will be down for a while longer, will cost more, and be more of a hassle.
Now, as an alternative, you could swap a newer motor into the car and run an older ECU. But you would also need an older motor harness or adapt your existing harness to work. Just leave the extra sensors/controls unplugged, because the older ECU doesnt know what to do with them anyways. That is the route I would take if your hell bent on a 99-00 motor.
What would I do? I would order a B16A3 (USDM Del Sol Si VTEC motor) or a JDM SiR2 motor (B16A OBD-I)
In Japan there is no such thing as a B16A2. they are all just B16A. thats it. To make your life easy, get yourself a good OBD I motor. Plain and simple its going to cost you less and be a hell of a lot easier to swap in.
1 more topic before I close. It is far easier to go from a newer OBD to an older version. Basically it is easy to take a 99-00 civic Si and run an OBD I ECU in it. you just need a jumper harness or build your own, and the ECU. Hondata doesnt make an OBD II unit
You always want to run whatever OBD your car currently is. Unless you want to go back a generation. However I would suggest you steer clear of the OBD 0 setup as that is as much of a pain as going to OBD II. It is easy to go from OBD II to OBD I and thats the only conversion I'd do\have done. Period.
If I am understanding this right, I need to get a GSR motor that is OBD I -> 92-95 since I have a 93 Cx which is OBD I. I am most likely going to order my motor from hmotorsonline since they have great prices and great feedback from many. The site says the motors are from 94-01. So it's a 2 out of 8 chance that I get a OBD I and better odds that I get a OBD II or higher.
So, this is what's needed to get an OBD II motor into my OBD I Cx: "What you would NEED to do to make an OBD II motor work in an OBD I car... is to first, gather all the extra **** that OBD II has that OBD I doesnt. PTANK sensor, 2nd O2 sensor, etc."
Would I get all this **** with my motor or is this something I have to get on my own? Sorry, for all these questions but this is the first thing I've EVER read that explains the OBD's!
I was reading up on OBD's and would like to see if I am on the right track.
This is copy / paste as I read it.
There are 4 well maybe 5 flavors of OBD that you should be concerned with. OBD stands for On Board Diagnotics. Basically the invention of electronic Fuel Injection was a good idea. Further followed by electronic engine control.
I am not familiar with anything older than 1988 and I dont know much about anything newer than 2000.
1988 - 1991 you have OBD 0 or pre OBD. This is found in all the older CRX's civic's, integra's, you name it between those years.
1992-1995 was OBD I. Basically it had everything OBD 0 had and then some. This helped to further fine tune the engine controls.
1996-1998 was OBD II. This was everything OBD I had and more. just change, emissions laws are getting stricter, trying to put out less polution, and making the engine more efficient.
1999-2000 was OBD II.5. Everything OBD II had and more but kind of a standard between all vehicle makers. check out http://www.obdii.com/ for more info.
2001 + is OBD III (so I've heard, havent played with any yet). however the 2001 integra is still OBD II and they never really went OBD II.5 like the civics did.
Its like this, OBD 0 ECU plugs differ from OBD I. OBD I plugs differ from OBD II. And so on. OBD I has more sensors/controls than OBD 0. OBD II has more sensors/controls than OBD I. You cant take an OBD II ECU and plug it right into your OBD I car. its like plugging a square peg into a round hole. it dont fit
Since I am most familiar with OBD I and II let me give you an example. OBD I cars came equipped with only 1 O2 sensor before the cat. OBD II had 1 before the cat and 1 AFTER the cat to make sure the cat was still working. OBD II also integrated a Crank Fluctuation sensor on the oil pump. And a fuel tank pressure sensor. OBD I uses 2 wires for the fuel pump relay and OBD II uses 1. OBD II B16A2's (99-00) use different injector harness plugs than OBD I cars. Same with IAC. IAC is also wired differently on OBD II than OBD I. The distributor's also vary between years.
What does this mean to you as an avid swapper?
Well here's the cool stuff. You cannot and I repeat cannot just swap out the under dash wire harness's. for 1 its a couple hundred dollars for the harness and 2 it wont fit. wires have different plugs, different components, and wired differently.
What you would NEED to do to make an OBD II motor work in an OBD I car... is to first, gather all the extra **** that OBD II has that OBD I doesnt. PTANK sensor, 2nd O2 sensor, etc. This is kind of a lost cause and way too much effort for what you are trying to accomplish. I'd rank you up there with the guy who swapped an NSX motor into a CRX, because he "could" and nobody "had".
Its totally pointless, your car will be down for a while longer, will cost more, and be more of a hassle.
Now, as an alternative, you could swap a newer motor into the car and run an older ECU. But you would also need an older motor harness or adapt your existing harness to work. Just leave the extra sensors/controls unplugged, because the older ECU doesnt know what to do with them anyways. That is the route I would take if your hell bent on a 99-00 motor.
What would I do? I would order a B16A3 (USDM Del Sol Si VTEC motor) or a JDM SiR2 motor (B16A OBD-I)
In Japan there is no such thing as a B16A2. they are all just B16A. thats it. To make your life easy, get yourself a good OBD I motor. Plain and simple its going to cost you less and be a hell of a lot easier to swap in.
1 more topic before I close. It is far easier to go from a newer OBD to an older version. Basically it is easy to take a 99-00 civic Si and run an OBD I ECU in it. you just need a jumper harness or build your own, and the ECU. Hondata doesnt make an OBD II unit
You always want to run whatever OBD your car currently is. Unless you want to go back a generation. However I would suggest you steer clear of the OBD 0 setup as that is as much of a pain as going to OBD II. It is easy to go from OBD II to OBD I and thats the only conversion I'd do\have done. Period.
If I am understanding this right, I need to get a GSR motor that is OBD I -> 92-95 since I have a 93 Cx which is OBD I. I am most likely going to order my motor from hmotorsonline since they have great prices and great feedback from many. The site says the motors are from 94-01. So it's a 2 out of 8 chance that I get a OBD I and better odds that I get a OBD II or higher.
So, this is what's needed to get an OBD II motor into my OBD I Cx: "What you would NEED to do to make an OBD II motor work in an OBD I car... is to first, gather all the extra **** that OBD II has that OBD I doesnt. PTANK sensor, 2nd O2 sensor, etc."
Would I get all this **** with my motor or is this something I have to get on my own? Sorry, for all these questions but this is the first thing I've EVER read that explains the OBD's!
12-29-2002, 06:04 PM
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Re: Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx! (Hybrid93Hatch)
Yup, you got it.
When you purchase a complete OBD2 changeover, the motor should come with all related sensors, so you should be set.
When you purchase a complete OBD2 changeover, the motor should come with all related sensors, so you should be set.
12-29-2002, 06:10 PM
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Re: Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx! (dom93hatch)
I believe most of the stuff comes with the engine. You'll need a catalytic converter with an o2 bung on it though.
12-29-2002, 06:14 PM
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Re: Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx! (Hybrid93Hatch)
According to B18C5-EH2 (moderator) OBD-II motors for the GSR and Type R PLUG RIGHT INTO THE HARNESS.
I would prefer either getting an OBD-I motor, or converting the OBD-II stuff over to the OBD-I - I've not had to do this under any circumstances, however.
The JDM motors plug right up to the OBD-I setups. OBD-II is slightly more complicated, but I'm told not much more.
Anybody else done the OBD-II into OBD-I change or JDM into OBD-II motors?
Shawn
I would prefer either getting an OBD-I motor, or converting the OBD-II stuff over to the OBD-I - I've not had to do this under any circumstances, however.
The JDM motors plug right up to the OBD-I setups. OBD-II is slightly more complicated, but I'm told not much more.
Anybody else done the OBD-II into OBD-I change or JDM into OBD-II motors?
Shawn
12-29-2002, 06:17 PM
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Re: Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx! (shawnhayes)
you'll need to get an obd2 to obd1 wire harness conversion...
need to hook up vtec, o2 sensor, and knock sensor
need to hook up vtec, o2 sensor, and knock sensor
12-29-2002, 06:21 PM
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Re: Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx! (pennies_hatchie)
you'll need to get an obd2 to obd1 wire harness conversion...
need to hook up vtec, o2 sensor, and knock sensor
need to hook up vtec, o2 sensor, and knock sensor
He'd be better off with an OBD-I ECU even if he had an OBD-II motor in a 93 CX.
Or are you talking about a wiring harness that converts OBD-II motors to OBD-I wiring at the engine harness?
Shawn
12-29-2002, 06:24 PM
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Re: Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx! (Hybrid93Hatch)
if you get a 96-up motor and want to stay obd1, you'll need an obd1 ecu and such.
there are some stuff that you wont need from obd2 like the CFK and the second 02 sensor if they come w/ the motor (obd1 ecu like the p28 is not looking for these things, not even the knock sensor)
it doesnt matter what yr the motor is from (bet 92-01)...it'll work on your car. i have an eg and my motor is from a 99 type R. all i had to buy was the p28 ecu...plug n play
there are some stuff that you wont need from obd2 like the CFK and the second 02 sensor if they come w/ the motor (obd1 ecu like the p28 is not looking for these things, not even the knock sensor)
it doesnt matter what yr the motor is from (bet 92-01)...it'll work on your car. i have an eg and my motor is from a 99 type R. all i had to buy was the p28 ecu...plug n play
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01-05-2003, 05:47 PM
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Re: Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx! (Rspool)
Tommorrow is the BIG day for me. I'm going to be placing my order at IAS (Import Auto Salvage) for my GSR motor. A little earlier than expected, but I think the Cx motor is on it's last life line 
I imagine if I get an OBD2 motor that they will give me the correct ECU (OBD1). Is there anything else I need with an OBD2 motor besides the ECU?
Thanks!!!
I imagine if I get an OBD2 motor that they will give me the correct ECU (OBD1). Is there anything else I need with an OBD2 motor besides the ECU?
Thanks!!!
01-05-2003, 06:45 PM
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Re: Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx! (Hybrid93Hatch)
I don't know but I would think if they send you an ODBII swap then they would send you and OBDII ecu to go with it (not an OBDI ecu.)
01-05-2003, 06:53 PM
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Re: Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx! (Jay-C)
Listen, if you order your motor they should ask you, or you can tell them, to send you an OBD1 motor which is what you should be purchasing. I know JDMHondaparts AND Hmotorsonline (ordered from BOTH companies) ask if you want OBD1 or OBD2! Just ask for OBD1 then you won't have ANY headaches!!
01-05-2003, 07:06 PM
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Re: Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx! (b16a ferio)
Why does he have to have an OBD 1 motor? Plenty of guys have OBD II engines...
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=346524 is where you can read about that....
That is an ITR motor, but as you can see its OBD II in a 92 Civic CX.... So I dont see why he is restricted to getting an OBD I....
[Modified by MayonakaNinja, 10:07 PM 1/5/2003]
Now there's a few different ways to get an ECU to work, and I'll list them from easiest to hardest: 1.Re-chipped P28. This will simply plug in. No need to wire up for a knock sensor because the P28 doesn't read for one. Better fuel, timing, VTEC x-over, and rev limiter = more power. OBD1 so no need at all to run any sort of extra sensors.
2. Kenji OBD2 jumper harness and JDM P73 ECU. I ran this on my motor for a while before the kenji ECU. You'll have to wire up a knock sensor wire and that's about it. Drawbacks are that this ECU has a 113-115 speed limiter and it doesn't make the power that the kenji-spec P28 does. ThisECU has OBD2 type plugs but IT RUNS AN OBD1 PROGRAM AND IT IS ONLY OBD2 IN PLUGS!!! I ran this ECU with no extra o2 sensor, no crank fluctuation bullshit, etc.
3. Jumper harness with USDM P73 ECU. Why? I wouldn't do this unless I was in Cali and it was necessary for smog bullshit. You'd have to wire up all the extra OBD2 bullshit and the ECU sucks compared to a re-chipped P28.
So that's for the USDM motors, but what about the JDM ITR swaps?
As Apexi-ITR has said the JDM harness can be used. It requires some stretching but it will work. If you must get the factory look then get any OBD2 type engine harness from any USDM B18C1 or B18C5 and then it will plug right in just like I said the USDM swap does.
As far as ECU stuff goes, really a P28 is the better choice again but you will need to add a VTEC oil pressure switch onto the JDM ITR motor because it doesn't have one and the P28 looks for one. Just pull an oil pressure switch from another VTEC motor - didn't you use a SOHC one Apexi-ITR?
Or you can run the jumper harness and O.E JDM P73 ECU. This will save you from having to add the oil pressure switch, but you'll have to add a knock sensor and this ECU still has the shitty speed limiter.
USDM ECU? But why?
That's about all I can think of right now. I run the kenji-spec P28 ECU in my 1992 CX hatchback and with this method and keeping the ITR engine harness I did not have to add one single wire at all! It was absolutely 100% plug and play!
2. Kenji OBD2 jumper harness and JDM P73 ECU. I ran this on my motor for a while before the kenji ECU. You'll have to wire up a knock sensor wire and that's about it. Drawbacks are that this ECU has a 113-115 speed limiter and it doesn't make the power that the kenji-spec P28 does. ThisECU has OBD2 type plugs but IT RUNS AN OBD1 PROGRAM AND IT IS ONLY OBD2 IN PLUGS!!! I ran this ECU with no extra o2 sensor, no crank fluctuation bullshit, etc.
3. Jumper harness with USDM P73 ECU. Why? I wouldn't do this unless I was in Cali and it was necessary for smog bullshit. You'd have to wire up all the extra OBD2 bullshit and the ECU sucks compared to a re-chipped P28.
So that's for the USDM motors, but what about the JDM ITR swaps?
As Apexi-ITR has said the JDM harness can be used. It requires some stretching but it will work. If you must get the factory look then get any OBD2 type engine harness from any USDM B18C1 or B18C5 and then it will plug right in just like I said the USDM swap does.
As far as ECU stuff goes, really a P28 is the better choice again but you will need to add a VTEC oil pressure switch onto the JDM ITR motor because it doesn't have one and the P28 looks for one. Just pull an oil pressure switch from another VTEC motor - didn't you use a SOHC one Apexi-ITR?
Or you can run the jumper harness and O.E JDM P73 ECU. This will save you from having to add the oil pressure switch, but you'll have to add a knock sensor and this ECU still has the shitty speed limiter.
USDM ECU? But why?
That's about all I can think of right now. I run the kenji-spec P28 ECU in my 1992 CX hatchback and with this method and keeping the ITR engine harness I did not have to add one single wire at all! It was absolutely 100% plug and play!
That is an ITR motor, but as you can see its OBD II in a 92 Civic CX.... So I dont see why he is restricted to getting an OBD I....
[Modified by MayonakaNinja, 10:07 PM 1/5/2003]
01-05-2003, 07:18 PM
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Re: Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx! (MayonakaNinja)
That is an ITR motor, but as you can see its OBD II in a 92 Civic CX.... So I dont see why he is restricted to getting an OBD I....
If you get the type R, or the Skunk2 manifold, I understand, but if you get a rechipped p28 for a GSR motor, the secondary butterflies will not function, and you won't get full power from the motor.
Shawn
01-05-2003, 09:02 PM
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Re: Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx! (shawnhayes)
True, but all I am saying is you CAN put OBD II in OBD I.... From the way ferio said it it was like he HAS to get OBD I engine, which isn't true....
I don't know all the details as far as the GSR engine and what it would entail, but I know that it can, and has been done countless amounts of times... I am sure someone on here has a 93 CX/GSR swap and can tell him what he needs to do...
I don't know all the details as far as the GSR engine and what it would entail, but I know that it can, and has been done countless amounts of times... I am sure someone on here has a 93 CX/GSR swap and can tell him what he needs to do...
01-05-2003, 09:27 PM
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Re: Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx! (MayonakaNinja)
i have a 92hatch with a2001 gsr setup, running off a p28 with a skunk2 intake manifold i plugged everything in and it started right up, no codes no nothing runs perfect, i didnt want an old obd1 engine cause i had no money to rebuild and i didnt want a engine with high milage, mine only has about 3k on it 
01-06-2003, 01:27 PM
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Re: Let's talk about OBD's and what GSR motor for a 93 Cx! (MayonakaNinja)
I don't know all the details as far as the GSR engine and what it would entail, but I know that it can, and has been done countless amounts of times... I am sure someone on here has a 93 CX/GSR swap and can tell him what he needs to do...
Of course, you can convert to a skunk2 manifold with a "rechipped" p28 ECU and make the whole issue moot, but it still won't run like stock. It won't have as good gas mileage (that's why the secondary butterflies are there anyway), and you won't have knock sensor control.
But hey, who cares about gas mileage or knock sensors anyway?
Shawn
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