grimey civic

Right now ive got a d16 and a k20 in my basement. i was going to do a k20a2 swap but after some thinking i realized that since i just have the block and only the block it would cost an outrageous amount of money for everything else needed head, harness blah blah ect ect. (dont worry i got the block from Acura dirt cheap).

so what i want to know is how much could i get out of a fully built D series. like forged pistons, bored, fully rebuilt head, turbo and all that. Im pretty sure ill be smoking k series around my area since these guys do k series all motor and turbo b series. but some feedback or suggestions would be appreciated thanks in advance.

yoffer

You should be asking yourself, how much do you want?

REDesignIT

umm not enough info, D16 what ? SOHC DOHC Z Y A motor ??? what shell ?? EG EM, EK ? Hatch Coupe Sedan.... Manual I assume.

Building a hot motor to beat a good B Series boosted car is going to be some money.

yoffer

Well obvisously he wants a lot of power if hes considering rods/pistons, headwork, ect...

SOHC_civic_si

OP- we need more info more you like these other people are saying. What shell? What D series engine? These "guys" with their K20's all motor if built properly could run around 250 whp, and the boosted B series "folks" could be anywhere from a stock block 7 psi turbo at 200 hp to a fully built machine like you want upwards of 500-600 hp. But to answer your question, with all that "jazz" and everything else you listed along with a fairly big turbo I've seen that motor crank out 450 hp. Just remember, the more info the better

yoffer

Even still, i wouldnt run over 350 on stock sleeves.

grimey civic

unfortunately its a SOHC. its going into an EG coupe, standard. Its a D16Z6. id like to go for 400hp but its seems to me that thats really hard to achieve with a D series but you guys are the experts what do you think?

iamthefollower

i know a guy here that has a 750 whp b18c motor.... like everyone else says, you need to really think of how much money you want to spend.. it's going to cost quite a bit to get a complete d series race engine..

REDesignIT

bwahhhhahhhaha 450 NA on a D16Z6 never going to happen my friend.

you are looking 200 maybe at that will cost you $5G's easy to make it street worthy.

At 200 HP not even whp, you are talking about almost doubling the output over stock. (118/125 depends on the build and breakin new)

So 450 on a single cam NA is really really really hard to do without big bucks and without Vtec. Meaning its easier to do it on a straight motor wild cam D15 non Vtec motor then it is on a Vtec motor.

And its going to suck ***** on the street with a very limited useable RPM band.

yoffer

He said he was going to turbo it. And even still if you had all the money in the world, its practically impossible to make 450 n/a on a 1.6 sohc honda motor.

grimey civic

i see what your saying. the D16 i have is one i bought. my EG has a running D15B7 in it. I wanted to rebild this block that i bought while i still drive my eg that way it doesnt just sit around while i rebuild it.

and as for money i sold the parts from my k20 for 5 times more then i paid now i just have the block left over

REDesignIT

cool, I missed the turbo part, yeah you could turbo the D16Z motor, its ok, makes for a nice little build, but most people usually just disable the Vtec so they can run the D15 head and a wild cam to make some decent power. But you are talking about a race on wed/friday tear out on Sat rebuild on Sunday/Mon/Tuesday kind of car. Not really a DD machine.

300 -325 on a turbo with a 50/50 reliability is kind of normal on a boosted D16Z6

grimey civic

thats what i figured reading that post again lol. it cant be THAT hard to reach a somewhat decent hp with the d series. in that case id rather buy a K series (since around here the prices have gone down dramatically) and throw that in if all ima get is 200hp.

yoffer

Are you serious? lol, people dont disable vtec on vtec motors. He stated that he was going to build the motor with rods and pistons ect... Do i really have to do this again? Why dont you read the OP? 50/50 reliability?
You can run 300hp on a dd turbo sohc if its built right and tuned accordingly.

REDesignIT

yes I am serious and many people running boosted D16Z6's are not running "Vtec" have swapped the head and are running a cam grind for the matching non vtec head.

300hp on a D16Z6 turbo, built right, yes I am aware, built right means about 7k in parts/machine shop labor, might as well do the K swap. But that is not what alot of people do, they take the Z motor they "maybe" put the right rods in it, they get the turbo setup for it, they bump the injector flow, add a bigger fuel pump and have at it. And they typically blow them up in a couple months or less.

Typically. Yes it can be done right and be reliable but its not cheap.

400whp D16Z6 http://videos.streetfire.net/video/t...c-F_111285.htm

92civiceg9gsr

D16z6 with Wiesco pistons and Eagle rods($750). Add a d16y8 intake manifold($100) . Then install a Treadstone Performance turbo kit($2000). A set of 650cc injectors($400) and a Walbro 255lph fuel pump($100). Stage 4 Competition Clutch($350). A Chrome chipped ecu & dyno tune($500). 350whp easy for less than 4K in parts and tuning. Also add about $500 for machine work.

yoffer

It was a retorical question when i asked if you were serious. READ THE OP!
He was planning on building it anyway. And your retarded if you run a z6 head without vtec. Absolutely pointless.

REDesignIT

read " have swapped the head and running a matching cam grind for the non vtec head" , ie no longer running the D16Z6 head swapping it for a D15 head, usually selling it off for mini me swaps........

REDesignIT

Well its a good start but far from complete or DD reliable, stock axles, stock EX gearbox? And $500 to machine the head, balance the crank, fit the rods and pistons, reinforced valvetrain assembly, stock cam (Crower is about $350.00 for this ap), no AFR, no turbo timer, what about spark, I am do not think the turbo kit comes with an ignition module like a blaster, 6a etc, going to run on the stock crank ? will work for awhile but its not really rated for more then 250hp without being treated/hardend. That $2,000 turbo kit include a boost controller and intercooler ?

Yes there are lots of items that are "optional" on a turbo build, yeah you can smack a snail on it give it some fuel and oil and try and make it play happy with the ecu, but run more then 7 or 8 psi and you are on a very thin edge from blowing holes through the block or grenading the gearbox.

92civiceg9gsr

Stock honda cranks are forged, hardend, treated, and internally balanced and capable of obscene power. Making an aftermarket crankshaft a waste of time/money. In fact most oem cranks are balanced well enough that I've seen machine shops leave them alone due to them being so well balanced. The stock d-series sleeves have been proven to 400whp. If you going for 400whp+ yes you should have the block sleeved. Look the turbo kit up they are not some crappy turbo kit it is a complete kit, minus fuel system parts allowing you to choose the fuel upgrades. Treadstone performance make parts for Turbonetics and other reputable companies. There are no upgrade gearbox's that i know of for a d-series, aside from installing an LSD unit but thats up to you. The oem ignition system is fine aside from using a colder heat range spark plug. Even the oem plug wires, if new, are up to the task of a boosted motor. A camshaft is up to you. I personally dont like cams in my DD cars, thus why I didnt mention it. Also a turbo timer isnt a necessary item unless you just think its cool to have one. Turbo timers do not affect the performance of the car in any way. I personally just sit in my car for a minute to let the car cool down. And you mention a AFR, I assume you mean AFR "gauge", also not a neccessary item if your car is tuned properly on a dyno.

z6hatchboy

you dont have to spend 7k to get 300hp out of a d, whoever said that is on rocks. I built my previous d to run 350hp (which wont be long till it hits it...we still need a boost controller, a tune, and w/g spring), and the a guy "jfk" that running 400hp on the same setup i did. D series are stout blocks contrary to what most think or know..the only real down side is the torque. Heres the main things you need to hit 350hp in a d (not to mention theres one guy i seen that had just over 500hp)
vitara piston/eagle rods setup that comes with gasket rebuild 750
cometic head gasket 95
head studs 120
~thats all thats needed for the motor~ (maybe some acl race bearings, 110)
Then all you need is a turbo kit, and a good one to hit 350+hp and including all misc. pieces (map sensor and stuff which doesnt come with a kit but youll have to buy) would probably be around 3k.
Im got rid of my last d16z6 turbo to start another project, which is a h2b turbo and i've thought a few times that maybe i should've just done another d for the money i have in this already. Also tuning is key!!!!!!!!!!!

REDesignIT

yes, I know you can did it for less, especially if you are a wiz home mechanic But if you only have access to basic tools and not a machine shop then reality is that you have to add another $2k min on top of your $3k estimate if you want to pull 300-350-400 off a single cam D16.

Yes maybe 7k is a little high, but unless you are duplicating part by part an identical setup your going to have some extra costs along the way. Or you shot the trans on your first boost run etc. Stuff happens I used to see it all the time. Fresh boosted 60/80k motor single cam, rev up and drop an axle launching from the light, or miss a shift and over rev the motor due to a chipped ecu higher then safe redline limit or no limit at all.

On average a good reliable boosted D16Z6 for the street is running 210-220 at the wheels maybe 250 at the crank.

z6hatchboy

thats why you make sure its done right, get phareble.net to get you a chipped ecu and base tune or something, and if you drive right (not saying you dont) you wont break axles. These guys running 400hp use auto zone lifetime axles, no joke and maybe have only broken them twice. You dont need special tools to put a motor together really, you just need to know how. The machine shop around here charges like 17-20 a hole to bore, 20 to deck i think. Thats about all the machine work you need. The few special tools you might need, ring compressors to put it in the block you could get at your local auto parts store, and heck you could even throguh a zex 59300 cam in it for a extra 250

REDesignIT

that's a great deal on machine work, most shops I know want 200 to 250 to mill the bottom end.

But I know people who hone there own cylinders with a dremel at home too, lol.

z6hatchboy

thats a lot to charge, you can hone with a drill and honing stone "thing", but boring out cylinders has to be done by machine. I had another shop price me around 300 i think to and assemble a bottom end, but if i get this block sleeved then ill just put the bottom end together myself