quick_turbo

I was at a stop light and when it turned green went but the car just dies.

I have done the following and have checked out good:
-Spark is good, took spark plug out and grounded it while cranking have
nice strong white spark.
-Distributor good, took it out and tested on my other 97 civic
-fuel pump and main relay good, can hear priming when turning key on
also tested this with main relay unplugged and no prime
have fuel in all cylinders
-timing is good, took it all apart and redid timing
doubled check TDC with piston #1 up, rotor pointing to #1 spark plug
-compression is also good, tested with compression tester
-ecu is good, took it out and tested it on other 97 civic
-catalytic converter good, took headers off and cranked

Crank position sensor was the culprit, when I took it off, the alt belt rubbed it and cut the wires. BUT when I put the new CPS in it still just cranks but wont start.

I did a bunch of research on here to get where I am at.

I have jumped the blue connector and I have a cel that stays on... HT said that if that's the case its either a bad ecu or ecu ground to G101.

Currently I have tested A9 and A22 and they have continuity

I'm stuck and would really appreciate some feedback and knowledge on this problem!!!

quick_turbo

bump

tony_2018

Different ecu?

quick_turbo

I thought about that also so I had my friend who has a 97 Civic HX also come out and I tested the distributor and ecu on my car and vice versa. Still no start on my car but my parts worked on her car.

I think I am going to try checking the dash fuse panel ICU today and trouble shoot wires that connect to fuse 31.

Former User

Manual or CVT HX?

How do you know?

Post the numbers.

Without the service connector jumped, does the CEL remain on steady when you turn the key from off to ON(II)? Or does the CEL turn off after 2 seconds?

Is the hood Back Up fuse blown?

quick_turbo

Ron
its a Manual

Fuel: I pulled the fuel rail with injectors, cranked the motor and they squirt in order

Compression: I used my buddies compression tester, but it leaks some air but I was getting cyl 1: 90, cyl2: 80, cyl3:75, cyl4:70.
I will be buying a new one tomorrow to check and will post new numbers.

CEL: No, the cel only stays on when I jump the service connector.
When I pulled the map sensor connecter then jumped the service connector, it does throw map sensor cel.

I have already installed a new crank sensor from autozone and still no start.

Former User

If the cylinder compression numbers hold, you found the problem.

quick_turbo

So after I bought the new compression tester the numbers were the same. But after I put some oil into each cylinder and tested them again I have the following numbers.
cyl1: 110, cyl2: 110, cyl3: 110, and cyl4: 115

I know they are low but they should be enough for the motor to run.

I also found that the cylinders are getting flooded with gas. So I cleared the cylinders by taking out the spark plugs and unplugging the connectors to the injectors and cranking the motor over. After doing this I put the spark plugs back in without connecting the injectors and cranked it and the motor almost started. So I put the connectors back on the injectors and when I crank it almost wants to start but gets flooded out?

I switched the fuel pressure regulator with my other 96 civic that runs and still no change. I also switched the map sensor with no change. I have tried unplugging the water temp sensor and the ect sensor with no change.

But every time I clear the fuel it almost wants to start?

Let me know what I should do next and what controls how much fuel the injectors should be giving.

Thanks in advanced.

Marvin1985

iTrader: (5)

Clean up the grounds. Have you tried starter fluid? Spark plug wires in correct spots? Anything you did before this issue happened?

Only thing that comes to mind. You did everything else possible

tony_2018

Compressions low, thats a good sign. Good sign to bail on that **** and get a swap!!!

fleabag

I agree your compression numbers are really low and that's because this is a very tired motor... There is absolutely no guarantee at all that anything I'm mentioning will help you get this car running again but it sounds like you're willing to try anything.

Here are a few things in the following order that I can suggest to help this motor along until a rebuild/replacement is only option (you're really at that point anyhow) is to:
1. find and replace the PCV valve + grommet to eliminate any potential vacuum leaks+reduce crankcase pressure,
2. do a valve lash adjustment,
3. find all of the electrical grounds in the engine bay, un-bolt them and thoroughly clean them up until all bolts, eyelits, washers, etc. are shiny (DONT SCRAPE PAINT!),
4. check the ohms value with a multimeter of all ignition wires and the ignition coil to make sure they're within spec,
5. try re-gapping the spark plugs to a smaller gap to make ignition easier
6. finally, try having the fuel injectors removed and professionally cleaned OR at least flow tested to make sure they're all squirting the same amount.

BTW as a useful tip for the valve lash adjustment, one thing I've noticed on these Hondas is that when you slip in the feeler gauge to check the gap, you may find one size of gap but if you then pull up on the rocker arm with your fingers, the gap can actually increase significantly, causing your previous reading to actually be invalid. I've been able to go up like 5 sizes sometimes because of that!

Former User

1. Change the engine oil.
2. Remove spark plugs to dry the cylinders and unplug the injector clips.
3. Add oil to each cylinder and reinstall the spark plugs.
4. With the injector clips unplugged, check whether the engine starts with starting fluid.

quick_turbo

K I'll go buy a bottle of starting fluid.

I just did the oil 2 days before this happened. Do I need to do it again?

quick_turbo

Fleabag:

Here are a few things in the following order that I can suggest to help this motor along until a rebuild/replacement is only option (you're really at that point anyhow) is to:
1. find and replace the PCV valve + grommet to eliminate any potential vacuum leaks+reduce crankcase pressure,
2. do a valve lash adjustment,
3. find all of the electrical grounds in the engine bay, un-bolt them and thoroughly clean them up until all bolts, eyelits, washers, etc. are shiny (DONT SCRAPE PAINT!),
4. check the ohms value with a multimeter of all ignition wires and the ignition coil to make sure they're within spec,
5. try re-gapping the spark plugs to a smaller gap to make ignition easier
6. finally, try having the fuel injectors removed and professionally cleaned OR at least flow tested to make sure they're all squirting the same amount.

1. I'll try changing the pcv valve. Haven't done that.
2. Already did the valve lash the other day.
3. I have sanded all main grounds in the engine bay and checked continuity with multimeter.
4. The dizzy should be good because I have tested it on 2 different civics already.
5. Already tried regapping the spark plugs and tested spark plugs from the other civics also.
6. I put fuel injectors from a running civic in also.

quick_turbo

The only thing I did before this happened was change the tranny fluid and oil.

It ran fine then just stalled at a light.

The alternator belt was rubbing the crank position sensor wire until it cut through half of the wires.
I changed this and now I'm where I'm at.

fleabag

You say you already checked the distributor... That's not what I asked you to do. I said check all of the ignition wires for appropriate ohms value and to also check the ignition coils for in spec ohms values on both sides.

It's possible you may need a new crank position sensor. I'm not sure what the test procedure for that is, perhaps you can remove it, hook up a some sort of multimeter and then spin it by hand to see if it shows up any slight electrical pulses which is what I'd imagine how it would function. Considering how the car just all of a sudden just flat out died and you CLAIM to have "fixed" these crank position sensor wires, perhaps you did a bad job at the repairs of those wires or something. Some critical sensor somewhere is very likely not getting its signal to the computer in order to operate. I believe there is a cam sensor as well as a crank sensor, so look in those areas. You should really get your self a copy of the electrical wiring diagram and service manual for this vehicle if you haven't already. There are PDFs available online for this sort of thing.

quick_turbo

I'll check the ignition wires, but the ignition coil is inside the distributor so that part should be good.

I replaced the crank position sensor with a used one and no results so I put a brand new one in and still no results. I have tested the new one with the multimeter and have tested for continuity from the plug to ecu and it checks out fine.

fleabag

The wires to the crank sensor could be loose in connector or they could be damaged/shorted etc still. Your timing belt possibly skipped a tooth.

"Distributor good, took it out and tested on my other 97 civic"

I would do a step by step check on the wiring harness, I can send you a copy of the electrical wiring diagram and service manual and you can go through step by step to verify that you don't have a continuity short anywhere in the harness before you go and swap computers. If you have a short, it's possible you killed the ECU.

bamaland601

iTrader: (1)

have you tried another map sensor?

quick_turbo

yea already tried another map sensor.

quick_turbo

Alright Ron, sorry took so long but went on vacation for a bit there.
So I didn't change the oil because I just changed it 3 days before it died on me.
I removed all spark plugs and unplugged injector clips and cranked the engine for a while to dry the plugs. Added oil and reinstalled the plugs. I had my wife cranked the motor while I sprayed starter fluid and still nothing. I did these steps a few times just to make sure the cylinders are dry. I also double checked the spark again and have really good white spark. I also double checked the firing order again. Seems like it almost wants to start but doesn't. Sounds like its not sparking at the right time? I don't know? Need help.
Also, if the ignition switch or ignition wires are bad it wouldn't crank over right?

bamaland601

iTrader: (1)

how about a pic of under the hood?

fleabag

wrong. bad ignition could allow the car to crank but give bad/poor power to the ECU.

quick_turbo

You guys know if there is a big difference in the Hitachi dizzy and the TEC dizzy? Because I was testing my car with my brother in laws but his is the TEC dizzy and mine is the Hitachi dizzy. Mine worked on his but was wondering if they are different.

fleabag

I'm not surprised considering the HX is a bit different vehicle from most civics. There is no direct swap for the HX distributors from any other civic besides the exact same model year + transmission type. On the Civic HX, there are like 10 different distributors offered for that car depending on the model year. On the CX/DX/LX/EX, there are also a handful as they too vary depending on the model year from 1996-2000.

So, unless your buddy has a distributor from the EXACT SAME CAR as yours (even different transmission on the HX will change the distributor!) you cannot swap to check to see if the distributor is good.


I believe there has to be some sort of test procedure for the distributor to ensure that it's good, right? Otherwise you'll have to buy a replacement one... maybe even a junkyard one cause your engine doesn't have too much life left in it.