bustedhonda95

i have a 1995 civic with the d15b7 in it I have been trying to diagnose why this thing will not start. just to put this in here I have been searching all the forums and reading my Haynes manuel for about a week now still can figure it out.
so here it is I have a crank no start condition
1. I have spark at all the plugs.
2. timing is on I have checked 3 times
3. I have fuel (plugs are wet and I can smell fuel plugs are new)
4. I have injector pulse (checked with noid light all 4)
5. firing order is right 1342
6. compression test results
#1 cyl 145 psi
#2 cyl 145 psi
#3 cyl 150 psi
#4 cyl 150 psi
I have tested the coil and ICM they check out within spec. have also tried starting with starting fluid not even a sputter. also checked grounds. please any ideas will help I am about ready to tell my friend to haul it to the scrap yard. main relay maybe any way to test it?

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

any cel's on? at/mt? recheck grounds. open the main relay and look for burned/cracked connections. there are multiple write ups on how to "rebuild" it.

bustedhonda95

I got this car as a crank no start. CEL comes on with key but goes off. its an auto trans and I cleaned and tightend all grounds that I could get to on motor and battery

bustedhonda95

also checked main relay did not see any cracked or burned connections

TomCat39

For complete 92-95 No Start diagnostics please see:
This post.
This post.
This post.
This post.
This post.
This post.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

I was recently thrown off by a 95 ex a/t with a no start. Ended up being that the flex plate was broken. Dropped the trans, slapped on a $20 part and shes good to go. Pull the starter or inspection plate and see if you can move the torque converter by hand with little resistance.

TomCat39

This didn't throw a CEL?

I would think if the no start situation was from something with the transmission on an auto it would trip a CEL to point you towards the tranny....

bustedhonda95

I would tend to think so on that to. I would also tend to think I would hear some banging or some sort of sound from the T.C. bouncing of the flywheel while cranking the engine.

a little more about the car it belongs to a friend of mine they drove it with no problems up until the left for south America car started fine for about one month then wouldn't start any more. when I got it the plug holes had oil in them I cleaned them out installed a new valve cover gasket and and tube gromets I guess there called and also put new spark plugs in

TomCat39

The oil in the spark plug tubes (towers) can be from either the upper or lower tower seals. You replaced the uppers which are on the valve cover, the lowers require taking off the rocker arm assembly.

However, the oil in the towers probably would not be enough to cause a no start.

The post links I posted above has the full procedure for troubleshooting a no start with the exception of checking timing but you've said you've checked mechanical timing 3 times. So you need to start running through the diagnostics to find out what the no start problem is. It's post #5 that I posted all the links to the proper Factory Service Manual pages for your car.

And it wouldn't hurt to check what eghatch9295 said. It very well could be that it doesn't always throw a CEL and prevents the car from starting. Good to know if the TC is operating properly.

bustedhonda95

yeah im just starting on those it says something about a test harness what is that an do I really need it or are jump wires okay and a multimeter. just to be safe I checked the timing again with a TDC indicator everything aligns so I am saying I am 100% sure its not timing so im gonna do my checks on the ICM and coil again my Haynes manual say something about the CKP/TDC/CYP sensor im gonna check those to

TomCat39

The test harness lets you test pins on the ecu plug. I think most people use part of a straightened out paper clip and touch the back of the plug wire to do the same thing without hurting any wires or trying to track down a test harness.

The last link I posted is the CKP/TDC/CYP sensor. If you look at the second link I posted, you will see that it is a #3 on the list of things to check.

#1 is ECU, #2 is "Other" fuel systems, #3 is Ignition Output Signal and #3 is CKP/TDC/CYP.

bustedhonda95

alright thank you I will do these checks and post what I find

95Sedan

all you need to start a vehicle is fuel and spark, check dizzy mechanical timing, possible chance your missing something...

95Sedan

check firing order too.

bustedhonda95

aparrently you have read the post very well maybe go back ove and read it again.

tomcat39 I have suceded in checking the first secection of your list I am asumming that I don have to do everything in the first link cause my CEL comes on with the key and goes back off after two seconds. my test with the voltage with A23 and A24 are 002 with my multimeter set to 2000m setting under Vdc

95Sedan

^ Check firing order, plugs wires...
don't care if you went over it already. could be wrong.. fuel and spark car runs...
CEL comes on/off is normal boss...

TomCat39

The CEL going off after 2 seconds just means it's not throwing a code. A definite way to know it's not got a code stored is to short the service connector. The CEL will stay lit with the connector shorted if there is no code.

I'm not sure I understand your posts on the voltage test. I believe you are saying the setting on the meter was 2000 millivolt (mV) which I believe is essentially 2 volt. When you say 002 do you mean 002 or .002?

If you meant a whole two not the point zero zero two then you need to move the scale up. You should have it on the 20V setting. You probably put more than 2 volts onto a maximum 2 volt circuit for your digital multimeter. Thus it displayed the max it could for that setting of 2 volts aka 2000 mV, which by the way is a little rough on the multimeter.

Anyways, yeah that part seems to say your ECU is fine. Now proceed to the #2 cause, Fuel supply (other than injectors).

It says to check your fuel pressure. Which I think is in the 3rd link. It is, 11-105 is in the third link. After that it goes onto check the Main Relay, which by the way is very common on these Hondas to act up.

Once fuel pressure is ruled out, it goes on to have us check the ignitor unit and the coil. But all of these things you said you've checked in your first post.

Just for good measure I'll post up the coil and ignitor tests from the Helms manual. See if it is the same as what you did with your Haynes manual.

Oh, and did you use an HEI spark tester when you tested for spark, it will also give you an indication on spark quality.

After all of this, it's looking towards the TDC/CYK/Crank Sensor and also the Ignition Output Signal.

TomCat39

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

no, it didnt. the part of it that bolts to the crank is pressed into the plate. that middle part broke loose, and the rest of the plate was just spinning around it. it didnt make much noise, except the starter was spinning faster than it typically would because there was no engine load on it.

bustedhonda95

okay I will check that out eghatch9295.

I jumped the CEL plug CEL stays on steady. but the SRS light flashes wouldn't think that has anything to do with the Crank no start. my multimeter stay at zero when I set it to 20v setting the link you sent says less than 1 volt should be present so I set it to 2v setting witch is the 2000Mv on mine it was just as I said 002 no decimal point anywhere


as for you 95sedan I have check the timing and firing order like 10 times now it has not changed from the first time I don't know how many times it will take befor it changes but it hasn't yet so I think timing is fine.

bustedhonda95

oh and just to ask to make sure does the ECM have to be connected to the harness to do the tests you sent me tomcat

TomCat39

Yes, your ECU is supposed to be hooked up. And I just reread 11-30. I was confusing one point on 11-31.

So Less than 1 volt is what you are after when testing pins A23 to ground and A24 to ground. My error, your setting for that circuit is correct at the 2000 mV. You reading was 2 mV which is definitely less than 1 v and says goto the next step. If you had more than one volt, then you'd be repairing wire between the ECU and G101.

Anyways, like you read and observed, your ECU checks out.

I posted the ignitor and coil pages so you can compare them to your Haynes manual. The 5th link I had posted above I believe is the Crank/TDC/CYK Sensor page.

Fuel pressure is the other thing that could be of issue. If the pressure is low due to a clogged filter or bad regulator it might not atomize the fuel properly which in turn could potentially not provide enough gaseous gasoline for the car to fire. In fluid form, gasoline is pretty useless, it's the vapors that burn.

And just to rule out the possibility that the Haynes manual has erroneous information here is the spark plug wire positions on the Distributor. #1 spark plug is on the timing belt side, then as you travel left to the transmission side it's of course #2, #3 and #4.

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bustedhonda95

correct on the fuel atomization but usualy if you spray starting fluid in an engine it should fire or pop or something not even getting that. haven't got to check the T.C. flex plate but im tired of it today so I will update on what I find tomorrow. I checked my manual with the info for the coil and I.C.M same specs and they both spec out so I eliminated them so on to those other three tomorrow morning thanks for all the input today more tomorrow

TomCat39

Oh right, I forgot you did the starting fluid.... So probably not a pressure issue. I'm sure you've messed with it a plenty. We'll see you in the morning.

Just to make it easier to visualize, I marked the Cap photo that is like it's orientated in the car to make verification easier. Just trying to rule out all possibilities. I've known Haynes manuals to have bad info before on some things.



One thought did occur to me, did you ever remove your distributor? Not just the cap and rotor but the whole thing?

Oh correction the TDC/Crank/CYK page is the last or 6th link I posted, not the 5th.

bustedhonda95

I did pull it out cause I thought it was 180 out but it wasn't and I figured out that it will only go in one way