LeonardDB

Worked some last 2 days on my 97 Hatchback to get the bolt loose. No luck. I planned to just get the bolt loose, nothing else. My 1/2" HF Earthquake 625 ft/lbs impact tool doesn't budge it. Lots of PB Blaster. Yesterday, got a 1/2" breaker bar, and 5' long - 1" black pipe. I'm working alone. The trick is getting a setup where the breaker bar does not move. Also having trouble keeping the Pulley Holding Tool from moving while I use the breaker bar. Regarding removing the crank pulley bolt, does it matter that I have not removed the belts? I've read tons of posts, but don't remember this issue raised.

THC07

try using the belt, fold it back onto its self. so that it binds. old trick, if i could draw a pic...

little heat might help too.

THC07

google pics.. "folding belt to remove crank pulley" you should see plenty of pics to give you a good ldea of how to use this trick

gwl

I tried to use the pulley holder tool w/o any success. I went ahead and use a metal strap wrench from Sears. Pinned it against the frame when I used a long pipe with a breaker bar to remove the crank bolt. I had a strap wrench from Harbor Freight and I broke it. It worked on my son's corrola but on the Civic, it failed.

LeonardDB

Regarding removing the crank pulley bolt, does it matter that I have not removed the drive belts? I just want to get the bolt loose for now, then re-torque to 130 ft/lbs until next week-end when I have time to do the whole job. I've read tons of posts, but don't remember this issue raised.

honda.lioness

About the alternator, a/c and p/s belts: You can leave them on while freeing the crankshaft pulley bolt. Make sure you do tighten the pulley bolt to the specified torque, though in between the days when you are working on your Civic. Many reports here attest to the bolt not being tightened correctly, freeing, and either damaging the pulley or the crankshaft end to the tune of a very expensive repair.

Markley02

Use a torch on the bolt. Helps a LOT! I know its scary, but sometimes that is the only thing that will do it.

LeonardDB

I'm probably going to buy a 3/4 drive Earthquake, 1400 ft/lbs today. On sale at HF for $239. Plus I have a 20% off coupon (don't know if they'll let me use the coupon). Last night I used my 5' long breaker to the point where the steel was flexing so much that I thought something would snap! The bolt is still frozen. That bolt was torqued on by a Honda Dealer shop.

kyosoeg6

iTrader: (7)

what kind of crank pulley tool are you using? i got a snap on well blue point one and it hits the frame on its own. after you have that sitting in place then just use a 1/2 ratchet with a rubber mallet. works every time for me.

honda.lioness

The reason so much torque is needed to break the bolt free is because the thread pitch is super fine, and the threads embed over time when the car is running. The bolt is not actually tightened (upon installation or re-installation) to the typically 300+ ft-lbs needed to free it. If it were originally tightened to say 300 or more ft-lbs, it would likely break during the tightening.

Impulses of force applied to the end of the five-foot cheater bar work much better than applying force steadily.

Some photos of how to support the pulley holding tool appear at http://sites.google.com/site/hondali...madepulleytool

I would never apply heat in that area. Something or another in that area is plastic or rubber. Heat should not be needed.

LeonardDB

kyosoeg6, That is one cool idea: "wack 1/2 ratchet with a rubber mallet". I'm going to try that when I get home. I'm not keen on shelling out $200+ for a tool that I really haven't needed all these years. I spent hours reading threads and didn't see this idea. I'm using this pulley holding tool:

Schley Products 60100 - Honda and Acura Harmonic Damper Pulley Holding Tool

Using the Schley tool and a small 1/2" breaker bar, I then put a small piece of 1/2 pvc over the breaker bar. I tied the pvc to the strut supports. I then put a rachet clamp over the strut support from the side. Maybe I should take a pix to post. The pulley is held very stable. I have the breaker bar sitting on top of a motor support, with a small piece of 2 X 4 between the motor support and the breaker bar. I'm gonna go home. Replace the breaker bar with a 1/2 ratchet and whack that bolt free!

legendrida

good ideas!

dpetro1

this method has always worked for me. pin the holder tool against the ground and use a breaker bar to crack it loose. put a jackstand under the long extension on the 19mm socket.

Daigs85

used a 24" breaker bar but with the car in gear and the front brake on

deadazleep

x2

TwoFaced

Same. Scared the **** out of me when it finally let loose because everything just made a loud snap and fell, I was almost sure I'd broke something...and then realized all was well and the bolt was loose. Too bad you can't do the starter bump like on domestic cars.

stateofjustin

The extension is stealing your torque, you are twisting that long bar like a torsion bar suspension instead of applying the force to the pulley bolt. Do yourself a favor and buy a real impact tool. Ingersol-Rand 2135TiMAX, half inch drive... half inch 6 point socket, you'll have that pulley bolt out in less than 10 seconds.

http://www.ingersollrandproducts.com...px-am_en-33453

HF numbers are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY over stated. You get what you pay for.

stateofjustin

Torching bolts weakens them by annealing... you take the temper out of the metal. Don't ever do it unless you are replacing the bolt.

LeonardDB

Great advice from everyone. dpetro1, that is one awesome pix and clever setup. Day 4 of the beastly bolt saga. Last night I tried the sledge hammer approach. I beat that sledge pretty hard. Bolt's still frozen. I have a 1/2" Earthquake impact, 625 ft/lbs, 17mm deep socket. It does not work on this bolt. I am going to buy the 3/4" Earthquake impact, 1400 ft/lbs today. What the heck, over the years I could have used this new tool multiple times on rusted, frozen on bolts (pb-blaster pre-soaking of course). All the joys of maintaining cool old cars!

honda.lioness

Laws of physics say torque applied to the extension at one end equals torque at the other end. No torque is stolen.

The one concern is that, with a 1/2-inch drive extension, around 90 degrees of deflection (turning) may be needed. When the bolt frees, this "spring" (from the static deflection) can come undone, equipment can kick back hard, the operator can get whacked hard by the cheater bar, etc. The operator has to be careful. This is another reason why I recommend applying force in impulses at the end of the cheater bar.

A 3/4-inch drive extension is preferable. Then the deflection is like five degrees. Problem is that 3/4 inch drive parts are very expensive. I have not had problems using 1/2-inch drive, though experience doing this many times now helps a lot.

LeonardDB

I finally got the bolt off! Note that I tried the 5' long breaker bar extension and the sledge hammer. I have spent a few weeks working on this. I found out that my air compressor was not set up correctly. I had a 1/4" hose going from the compressor to the pull-down hose reel. I replaced all hose connections and fittings to 3/8". I also removed the "quick connector" at the impact gun. My 1/2" HF Earthquake 625 ft/lbs still would not remove the bolt after about 15 min of intermittent use. Then I used my brand new, unused 3/4" Earthquake impact, 1400 ft/lbs. I had the bolt off within 5 minutes! I used a 1/2" - 17mm deep socket with a 3/4" to 1/2" adapter, so I didn't have to buy the expensive 3/4" sockets. This 3/4" Earthquake impact gun is a beast! It weighs about 25 lbs. I was shocked at the power of the force on my arm. I had to use all my strength using 1 arm on the pulley holding tool and 1 arm to lift the impact gun into place (actually my neighbor helped me lift the beastly impact gun and hold it in place). What a monster tool! I should have bought this tool on day 1.

stateofjustin

This is true, but it is only a textbook truth when applied to the reality of this situation. The breaker bar is FAR stronger than the pipe shown and the force applied to the points of contact between the breaker bar and the pipe causes the pipe walls to stretch and thin, causing a constantly rising loss of torque. There will be an overall net gain of course, but only up to the point of failure due to metal fatigue in the extension pipe.

I'm sure the pipe pictured would deflect in a visible arc. Judging by the size of the pipe in the picture the net gain would be pretty low. Now, a nice thick cast iron pipe 5-10mm wall thickness... monster torque due to very little loss by deflection.

At least it finally came out

I know this is a dead thread, but I've been gone awhile and am getting back into the swing (of cast iron pipes).

honda.lioness

Using a couple feet or so of 1/2-inch extension will only increase the wind-up (a.k.a. "angular" deflection while removing the bolt. The extension will not cause any "torque loss."

strategy400

Not to mention the effect of the heat on the seals, oil pump, crankshaft, oil in the journals, and any other nearby vital engine components. You wouldn't want to heat any of this stuff hotter than normal operating temps of the engine. What if you take the temper out of the crankshaft threads that this super tight bolt threads into?

stateofjustin

Lioness, you and I are not talking about the same thing/part/area. You appear to be talking about the extension attached between the socket and the breaker bar. I'm not.

I'm talking about the pipe slipped over the handle of the breaker bar (the long part of an 'L' shape in this case). Two totally different things.

You're right about the shared-axis solid extension, no loss there (unless it fails due to it being placed under an amount of force is is not designed or rated to carry).