Koko4

A few months ago, and about 3,000 miles ago, I had left my car in my driveway without driving it for about 2 weeks (maybe 2.5 weeks). When I went to start it, it started fine, but when I would hold the clutch to the floor there would be a loud grinding / spinning sound. The car still shifted in and out of gear with no problems, and I decided to drive it up the street. Once I drove it up and down my street, the sound went away completely and hasn't reoccured since. I attributed it to the fact that it was sitting without being driven for longer than usual. Maybe an odd sound from the throwout bearing / pressure plate??

Fast forward to yesterday. I had to drive my car to Chicago from Atlanta for work, and had absolutely no problems during the drive. I had been in stop-and-go traffic, and the clutch hadn't given me any problems. I came to a stop on an exit ramp after exiting the interstate, and put the car in first. When I started going and let my foot off the clutch, I felt a bit of a "clunk" resonate through the clutch pedal. After this, the car was stuck in first gear. After pulling it into neutral, I had to rev-match to get it to shift into second. When I came to a stop at a light, I had to turn the car off, put it in first, and start it in first to get going forward. It was like I was locked out of all gears while in neutral. I limped it down the street in second gear and came to another stop sign - did the same thing, and kept going. Now, I tried the clutch pedal again and it was working perfectly, as if nothing had happened. I finished driving to my destination (about 2 miles) and parked it for the night. I checked the clutch master cylinder reservoir to make sure it was full, which it was. I also checked the slave cylinder to see if the rubber piston could have been leaking / somehow lost pressure. Looked fine.

The next day (yesterday) I drove the car all the way home - over 800 miles - with absolutely no problems. I'm not having any of the typical symptoms of a bad clutch, no slipping, no popping out of gears, etc.

The only other thing I can mention is that SOMETIMES - only once every week or so, when I'm starting out in first gear and letting my foot off of the clutch, I can kind of hear the clutch disc engaging the flywheel. It sounds like I can actually hear the two rub together as I lift my foot off of the clutch pedal, then they engage and make no noise. Also, sometimes first thing in the morning, my clutch is a bit jerkier than it is normally. After one or two shifts this goes away completely. I only mention these things because I don't know if they could help diagnose this problem.

The car has 197,000 miles on it, and I've had it since 152,000 with the same clutch it has now. I am starting to think this could be the beginning signs of the pressure plate splines or throwout bearing going bad, BUT on the other hand, I don't want to tear it down and replace the clutch / pressure plate / machine the flywheel / throwout bearing - just for a hunch. Then again, I can't wait until it goes out completely and leaves me stranded on the side of the road, either. I travel a ton for work and would more than likely be out of state if/when that happened.

I think I should also mention that I was on a cross-country road trip with my girlfriend last summer, and we were stopped at a red light, in first gear with the clutch pedal all the way to the floor. There was a loud "clunk" and the car kind of felt like it jerked forward, without actually moving much. It was still in neutral as far as I could tell, because it never shut off and never actually jerked forward. After that road trip, I ended up replacing the master and slave cylinders, and bleeding the system. I figured it was the hydraulics of the clutch system losing pressure and causing this "clunk". I haven't had the issue recur since then. I tried to get the specs for the free play in the clutch pedal to where they should be, per the manual, and as far as I know, it's VERY close. I used the old master cylinder adjustment as a reference and checked it from there.

Any ideas / thoughts? Let me know if you guys need any more info. Thanks for any and all help and advice!

OptimisticWay

Is this car your 1997 Civic? Pull the dust shield off of the transmission and inspect the clutch for wear and measure its thickness. Have someone depress the clutch pedal while you are under the car and listen for these "sounds" you are hearing. See if you can detect any binding. Have them go through the gears while inspecting the linkage.

Make a video for us to watch please.

Former User

Do nothing if the problem is now gone after bleeding the hydraulic system.

Koko4

The original problem I had with the clutch, which was the clunk while sitting still at a red light, was remedied by replacing the slave / master cylinders and bleeding the system. There are three different occasions that I was describing above, which happened in this order:

1) Around 180,000 miles - the "clunk" sound while on a road trip - completely went away after replacing master and slave, and bleeding system

2) About 195,000 miles - the grinding sound while clutch was pressed in, only happened the one time after not driving it for over two weeks. Then has never happened again after that.

3) 197,000 miles - the other day when it locked me out of gears and I had to do the rev-match to get where I was going, and then worked fine all the way home from Illinois


I can start by making 10000% sure that my transmission mounts are good and tight, that the linkage is good and all bushings are okay, and the clutch pedal still has the recommended amount of play in it. I don't know of a way to measure the clutch thickness by just taking off the inspection plate and not having to remove the entire transmission and clutch..is that even possible?

Former User

Which problems are continuing?

OptimisticWay

http://www.g-w.com/pdf/sampchap/9781605252131_ch07.pdf

"Often, what seems like clutch chatter is really a worn out constant-velocity joint or other universal joint. Other causes of chatter include a misaligned flywheel, a worn pilot bearing, or both. It is possible that release levers are unevenlyadjusted or worn. Sometimes, dust from a worn clutch disc facing clogs the disc segments and cause chatter."

Koko4

None of the problems are constant / continuing, which is why this is such a mystery to me! These (with the exception of the clutch chatter) have been single-time instances.

OptimiticWay, you have a very good point. I should have also mentioned that I think my inner CV joint (left side) is going bad, based only on the fact that the car clicks while turning right when there's a good amount of pressure on the turn. They are relatively new axles, though (remans from AutoZone..so questionable quality), so I have put off re-replacing it. The axles were one of the things I replaced earlier trying to diagnose my mystery vibration..which turned out to only be a couple of loose transmission-to-bellhousing bolts after months of trial and error. You live and learn, I guess.

If it is indeed clutch dust causing some chatter, is it a bad idea to remove the dust cover and blow out what I can using an air compressor hose?

I should probably replace the left axle soon, even if I have to pull it in two pieces (AutoZone employee's exact words - if you want to replace this part (limited lifetime warranty), it needs to be pulled out of the socket before it gets to me.)

OptimisticWay

"If it is indeed clutch dust causing some chatter, is it a bad idea to remove the dust cover and blow out what I can using an air compressor hose?"

If you are going to do that, do it outside, wear a respirator or at least a dust mask, and when done, strip down to your birthday suit and run through the hose. You do not want to breath this stuff or give it to your children or pets.

Loose bell housing bolts will cause clutch chattering when taking off from a dead stop. Had this on my 2nd CRX, 88 HF. The guy did the clutch job himself, among other things the brake job. Parking brake never worked until I replaced the shoes and discovered that the spings where in backwards and not contacting the starwheel. Shadetree buttheads.

Former User

It's unproductive to chase or obsess over problems that don't return.

Clutch chatter typically indicates a worn or oil contaminated clutch. Either way, you'll need to replace it.

Koko4

Could be clutch chatter. It vibrates when I'm starting off from a stop, about mid-release of the pedal. Happens worst in reverse, and then in first gear as well. I can slip into all other gears easily, and if I give it more throttle in first, it happens less / none.

Should I wait for it to actually start slipping before I tear into it? Is there any way to measure how much life it has left just by removing the dust shield?

While replacing the clutch, I would do the clutch, throwout bearing, pilot bearing (if it comes with the kit), and pressure plate. I'd also resurface the flywheel. I just looked on RockAuto and saw kits from all of these brands: Exedy, Luk, Valeo, AMS Automotive, National Clutch and Brake, and Sachs. Or would NAPA / Amazon be a better bet? I'd want to stay as close to stock as possible (without paying $500000 from Honda).

It's been like this for awhile, and hasn't gotten much worse / any better. Should I let it ride or am I risking it completely pooping out on me at once? Or would it typically be a more subtle transition where I would have some forewarning that it's actually slipping / going out?

tony_2018

Your risking it. I have a feeling its the clutch spring, notorious for breaking off of the clutch.

Koko4

Clutch spring meaning throwout bearing, or the splines on the pressure plate? I've never seen my clutch before but did a clutch on an 05 kia and a 75 jeep CJ.. Any recommendations on brands or replacement kits to go with, as close to OEM as possible? And replace or just resurface the flywheel? (Assuming all teeth are fine and whatnot)

OptimisticWay

Find a code for $25 off $125 at Advance Auto Parts online purchase and pick in store pickup option. You will get a clutch package that is about $122.00. It will include the clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, pilot bearing and alignment tool as well as a packet of grease. If the clutch set is less than $125 buy some blue shop towels or blue loctite for the flywheel bolts. For $75 you will have a lifetime warranty on the clutch. I have many.

You can test the clutch by putting it in low gear and honding brake down while you release the clutch pedal. If it stalls, you have a good clutch. If it runs, you have a bad pressure plate or glazed clutch. You have a hydraulic clutch, so it is self adjusting. Not like a cable. When letting the clutch out from the floor, while taking off in 1st, see how long you have to raise the pedal before the tach drops. The further you come off the floor, the more clutch material you have.

When placing the transmission into 1st gear at a dead stop, does the engine rpm drop? If so, the clutch is partially engaged and you have little friction material left.

If you are passing all these tests and no problem is resurfacing, I would put off the clutch unless you have the time, space, and money to do it now. If you have classes in the fall or something else coming up and can get this out of the way now, I would.

If you know how much friction material is under the heads of the rivets, you can measure what you see is left with the dust cover off. I have 3, at least, old clutches on the shelf if you want me to make a video with measurements tomorrow.

OptimisticWay

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/p...rchTerm=clutch

$122.99 for a clutch package. I put in 1997 Honda Civic EX. If this is not your car, change it.

I am looking for a code. You can do a Google search of "Advance Auto Parts Coupons 50 off 125 40%" 40% coupon is great, but I only see them during Black Friday. This is close to 40% off if you don't go over $125 before the discount.

If you find an old code for the 50 off 125, call up corporate and tell them you are having trouble with the code. My guy said yeah that code expired a few days ago, but I can hook you up. He took off $53 dollars. They want your business.

Hope this helps you out.

Koko4

For $75 on top of the cost of the clutch? That's not a bad price.

So if it passes the stall test and has a decent amount of pedal rise before the clutch grabs, the problem lays in the necessity for resurfacing the flywheel? I have not tested these after seeing this post, but can do that tomorrow after work and am 99% sure it will pass those tests just fine.

This would be extremely helpful. I might have to run to Harbor Freight to get a micrometer but the measurements would be great to know. I'm starting to suspect that these odd problems could be the failing of a clutch spring..I just read a different post where the guys clutch had a complete failure (sounds like what happened to me above, most recently, but was lasting) and it turned out to be a clutch spring backed out of the clutch disc.

Here's my situation: I have to travel for work every month. Two weeks on, two weeks off (roughly). This Sunday, I have to fly out of town until next Thursday, and then I will be back for 1.5 weeks until the following Sunday before having to leave again. That month I will be using a rental car, but then the month after that I have to drive this thing to Kansas. So I want whatever problems / potential issues I am having to be completely solved by then at least! I will either have the time later this week (kind of stretching it because that would give me Thurs afternoon, Friday, and Saturday) or after I get back from that work trip (Thursday through the following Saturday). I'd rather knock it out, but then again "if it ain't broke don't fix it" could also apply here.

OptimisticWay

http://procouponcode.com/advance-auto-parts-coupon-code

They currently have a $40 off $100 or $110 and $50 off $175

Best I can find. I just used WD22 for $50 off $125. Tell the representative over the phone that you are having trouble with that code and see if they will run it. Gotta act all well I need this part and only have this much money and then say nothing, let them say the first words. He who speaks first, loses.

If it doesn't work, keep calling back trying different reps. Keep track of names and hang up on duplicates. Try different shifts, 8 hours apart.

OptimisticWay

Resurfacing a flywheel shouldn't be but $45.if they guy says he can't get the pins out but will sell you a new flywheel, run. He is punking you. I had a guy try this with me. He would spray the removal tool with oil so the extraction tool would slip off in front of me.

A new flywheel is $60 at a parts store but is made of cheaper metal. Your stock flywheel is much better.

You can contact a dealership for the minimal thickness specs on your flywheel. Some people will just turn them until its clean, measure it with a micrometer before paying. Unless they want cash up front, not a good option.

OptimisticWay

You can install a clutch in a day if you are good. Two days is plenty of time without having to rush. And if you have 3 or 4 days, you should be in great shape.

How much money will it cost you if the Civic breaks down because of the clutch halfway to your destinatio? Will you tow it? AAA? If AAA, the most they tow is 250 miles on the irmost expensive plan. Then wait another 24 hours to tow it another 250 miles and will you be home then?

Will you have to pay a shop that has you by the ***** for a clutch replacement?

These are questions you need answers to.

If you too like to live dangerously then throw caution to the wind. It's a Honda. It will likely make it there.

Koko4

Well I have found some options:

Advance Auto: $130 with possible $50 discount off order of $75+
Limited lifetime warranty (as long as not contaminated by grease/oil)

AutoZone: $120 with no known discounts
Limited lifetime warranty (as long as not contaminated by grease/oil)

NAPA Auto Parts: $110 and 10% discount if reserved online
12,000 mile warranty

RockAuto: Exedy, Luk, Valeo, AMS Automotive, National Clutch and Brake, Sachs
Unknown warranty / cheaper price (~ $90 + shipping, at least 3-4 day wait time).

I am not as concerned with the price as I am with the quality. OEM sounds too expensive, though, although I have not priced it out. I don't do any crazy performance driving or anything..just daily driving and I'm a grandpa driver for the most part.

I have a machine shop that could resurface, that I trust. Hopefully that would be sufficient. To answer OptomisticWay's question: I would be getting a tow from AAA, and have 100 miles free. If I were stranded on a business trip, I would likely have to rent a car (business expense) but would possibly have to pay out of my own pocket for any lost time due to car troubles (extra hotel night, maybe, something of that nature). Not to mention the tow home. If it needs it, I'd rather get it out of the way. 1-2 days seems reasonable, with frequent breaks and lots of picture taking, and bolt labeling.

How should I make a choice between all of the above clutch kits? The only part I am unsure about is the pilot bearing..the flywheel for the Kia had it built into the flywheel itself, and I remember on the Jeep we did something like pack it with grease and somehow use the pressure from the grease to force it outwards? I don't remember exactly..it was two summers ago.


#4 - Clutch release fork setting spring? What is the purpose of this spring and does it need to be replaced? Or when you guys were referring to the clutch spring, were you just referring to the actual spring in the clutch disc?

Pricing it out from Majestic Honda, the pressure plate is around $100, clutch disc is $80, throwout bearing is $40, pilot bearing is $8..that could add up, not to mention shipping costs too!

Former User

Many members believe Exedy is an excellent replacement for the stock clutch.

Koko4

Thank you - I just found it on Amazon shipped with Prime for $90. Seems like a very fair deal, with great reviews too..I am pretty close to pulling the trigger and getting my hands dirty this weekend..

One more question - should I replace the rear main seal while I'm in there, or only if it looks like it's leaking? I am wary of replacing seals, even though I am careful I am always worried they will leak / I will open a Pandora's box of problems that weren't there beforehand.

Former User

How many miles on the engine?

Koko4

Just turned 197,000. Had it since it had 152,000. Burns some oil (assuming burns..). I've replaced the oil pan gasket, cam and crank seals, and VC gasket doesn't leak. No excessive smoke out the tailpipe, though. I add about 1/4qt every two tanks or so..maybe even less frequently..so I'm not TOO concerned. I just check it every fill-up.

Cam and crank seals, and TB/WP kit I put on were NOT name brand / not OEM, though. Kind of regretting that. They were eBay brand but seem to be doing just fine.

Former User

With about 200K miles, I would recommend that your replace the rear seal while you have the transmission out even if it is not leaking. The service manual describes how to properly seat the seal.

Get the Honda seal.

Koko4

10-4, thank you for your help. I will need to find a cheap seal driver set from Harbor Freight or get one from AutoZone rental tools! Should be a fun experience. Looks like I'm going to just bite the bullet and replace the clutch before it strands me. Cheap insurance, nonetheless.

Do you think the symptoms I originally described (the three isolated incidents) could be the first tell-tale signs of the springs on the clutch disc backing out / failing?