AcidFr33ze

Hello all,

Firstly I searched for this on HT and google, but have found nothing. (I know how much HT loves posters when they dont search)

Here is what happened. My timing belt snapped on me while waiting at the light. (Thankfully only a block away from home)

So I changed the timing belt, along with the A/C, Power Steering, and Alternator belts.

The car starts fine. Well it seems a bit hesitant, but it starts. Revs in park/neutral just fine. Dont hear/feel misfiring.
But when I put the car in drive, there seems to be a lag in acceleration. It creeps up in speed. And normally I would think hands down my tranny is bad, but I feel that I might have done something wrong with the timing belt change? Anyone? Advice?
Also, part of the changing, you have to stick a long screw driver in the flywheel bellhousing to take out the crank pulley bolt. But the screw driver didn't stay in there. I may have slightly grinded the teeth, but not to cause such horrible acceleration. Right?

So is there any chance I did something wrong with the timing belt installation? BTW,prior to this change the tranny was okay.

BTW, 93 CIVIC hatch, 1.5L SOHC. I guess its a D15Z1 engine or 16. Whatever is stock.

Any useful advice is greatly appreciated, thanks HT.

EJ8_Enthusiast

don't you usually end up with bent valves when you let the timing belt go out?

rivaladore

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AcidFr33ze &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
But when I put the car in drive, there seems to be a lag in acceleration </TD></TR></TABLE>

Your cam timing is probably off. Not sure of the symptoms of bent valves but maybe you effed up your head when the belt snapped.

Adjust your crank so the TDC mark lines up with the lower pointer. then take off your upper timing belt cover and see if your cam is where it's supposed to be. I think you might be off by a tooth.

slowcivic2k

You probably damaged something when the belt snapped. Should have checked it/changed it when it was purchased. Most likely a valve was bent.

Check your compression numbers, your probably leaking out of the valves. Pull the plugs and see if you can see any carnage on the face of the piston, or the plug for that matter.

AcidFr33ze

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rivaladore &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Adjust your crank so the TDC mark lines up with the lower pointer. then take off your upper timing belt cover and see if your cam is where it's supposed to be. I think you might be off by a tooth.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

When I put the Crank and Cam at TDC I put the timing belt on, adjusted the tensioner, then rotated the crank a couple rotations and made sure that they are still at TDC after a full couple cycles.

I guess it might be the valves. Any easy way to check this?

Any other suggestions?

turbo-2nr

compresion test

AcidFr33ze

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbo-2nr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">compresion test</TD></TR></TABLE>

If it was compression or valves, wouldnt the engine perform equally poorly in neutral and drive?

Currently if I rev the engine in park, sounds fine. Even when in drive the engine sounds fine, it just doesn't accelerate. Which leads me to think tranny. Can my timing belt fixing messed up the tranny somehow?

slowcivic2k

Engines do not perform at idle, because there is 0 load on the engine. A poor engine should rev just as fast as a good one at idle, the only load is the compression of each cylinder, it is not moving the car.

AcidFr33ze

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowcivic2k &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Engines do not perform at idle, because there is 0 load on the engine. A poor engine should rev just as fast as a good one at idle, the only load is the compression of each cylinder, it is not moving the car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Makes sense.

But a poor compression can also be bad piston rings correct?
Would bad valve leak oil into the cylinder, or is leaking oil mainly due to piston rings/head gasket?


Thanks.

slowcivic2k

There are a lot of tests to determine your problem, a compression is the most basic and the most affordable for most, and will determine if there is a leak at all. If compression is low (120psi or lower), I would perform a leak down test. This is usually not required as the lack of compression is enough info to have the engine yanked anyways, and have a physical inspection close up.

A repair you did to the engine, will not affect the transmission. If the engine cant produce to torque to turn the transmission and move the car, that is all on the engine.

dividedas1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AcidFr33ze &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Currently if I rev the engine in park, sounds fine. Even when in drive the engine sounds fine, it just doesn't accelerate. Which leads me to think tranny. Can my timing belt fixing messed up the tranny somehow? </TD></TR></TABLE> time for a new head perhaps...

AcidFr33ze

Slowcivic2K thanks for the great info.

94EG8

Back in the day when i ran an automatic civic with a stock D15B7 i also snapped my timing belt. I was in the middle of nowhere too, took like 3 hours to get someone out there to get me. we put a new belt on in someones driveway and it did the same thing, reved up fine in neutral, but when you put a load on it worked like ****. Timed it again when i got it home and it was fine, we just got the belt off a tooth or 2. Sometimes you bend valves and sometimes you get lucky, i this case i think the engine just wasn't timed right.

dividedas1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94EG8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Back in the day when i ran an automatic civic with a stock D15B7 i also snapped my timing belt. I was in the middle of nowhere too, took like 3 hours to get someone out there to get me. we put a new belt on in someones driveway and it did the same thing, reved up fine in neutral, but when you put a load on it worked like ****. Timed it again when i got it home and it was fine, we just got the belt off a tooth or 2. Sometimes you bend valves and sometimes you get lucky, i this case i think the engine just wasn't timed right.</TD></TR></TABLE>

some times tho these problems dont show up right away... other times they do. my escort i had i snapped the timing belt. i figured i bent some valves but said f it and put a new belt on it. car lasted me like a year and a half till i lost all compression in 3/4 of my cylinders... to the OP get a compression test done. see what it looks like.

blk92_d16

It's just more likely you're off a tooth or two. it can happen to the best of us!

dividedas1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AcidFr33ze &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Here is what happened. My <U>timing belt snapped</U> on me while waiting at the light. </TD></TR></TABLE>

AHHH dont people read any more... we have interference motors... when the timing belt snaps the pistons upper cut your valves like jackie chan. unfortunatly for us we cant snap timing belts/chains like an old domestic

why does everyone keep telling him to check his timing... its a single cam engine, it doesnt take a genius to time a D15Z1. plus if you read up a few posts it sounds like he knows how to time an engine im willing to bet you bet a valve to two.

AcidFr33ze

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dividedas1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">plus if you read up a few posts it sounds like he knows how to time an engine im willing to bet you bet a valve to two.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks for the confidence. Im not a pro but I followed the service manual and many other posts to the tee. I double checked everything. Even spinned the crank pulley a couple times to make sure it stays at TDC.

I guess its time to get another car. I also noticed oil on the spark plug in cylinder 3, so I guess its time to go. But out of curiosity I will do a compression test.

I think I will now debate the SI / GTI options. And work on the car on the spare time. I def. will recheck the timing.


Modified by AcidFr33ze at 5:27 PM 8/1/2008

94EG8

I just kinda noticed, you mentioned D15Z1, you also mention 16, i don't know if you meant 1.6L or 16 valve. You also say that its an automatic transmission and that its a hatch. Therefore, you do not have either a D15Z1 or a 1.6L (D16Z6) D15Z1 was never available mated to an automatic. D16Z6 could be, but not in a hatch as the the only hatch it came in was the Si which was only available as a manual. Why does any of this matter? Because the timing marks are different for the D15Z1 and the D16Z6 from the D15B7, which should be the engine you have as its the only one that would fit with everything else, available in a hatch with an automatic tranny. If your trying to use the Z6/Z1 timing instructions it wont be timed right, time for a D15B7 and see what happens.

AcidFr33ze

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94EG8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If your trying to use the Z6/Z1 timing instructions it wont be timed right, time for a D15B7 and see what happens.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Timing is timing. What I did. Top camshaft you level the two lines and make sure the word "top" is on top. And on the crankshaft pulley, you have the key at 12 o'clock and the marker lined up with the arrow at around 2 o'clock. And then stick the long screw driver in the cylinder #1 (next to camshaft) and make sure its at the highest point.

I was very nervous about setting the timing so I triple checked everything. But hey, I know we are human so I am going to double check everything.

I am curioius to see the compression numbers though.


Modified by AcidFr33ze at 5:43 PM 8/1/2008

1992Si

Go to the auto parts store and but a $19.00 compression tester. When you find out compression is low you will realize you have a bent valve or two.

HINT HINT, tighten the crap out of the fitting onto the hose on the tester, it's not fun grinding down a socket to fit down there to loosen the fitting.
Trust me on that one.

slvrcvc93

well lets do this by the book we already now the belt snapped so there is a possibility of bent valves.

First not all the valves will be bent only some depending on the cycle the motor was in.

To do a proper compression test you must take out all the spark plugs and block the throttle plate and disconnect power from the distributer.
You must start at cylinder NO:1 (timing belt side) and work across.

If you did bend a valve 1 maybe even 2 cylinders compression numbers will be way off. If within 25psi its ok anything more than that is possible you bent something. after you do this get back to us please then you can be better assisted in a leakdown or timing.
You seem pretty sure that the timing is good so lets see what happens.

AcidFr33ze

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slvrcvc93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">To do a proper compression test you must take out all the spark plugs and block the throttle plate and disconnect power from the distributer.
You must start at cylinder NO:1 (timing belt side) and work across.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I thought you just take out the ECU fuse. Floor the gas pedal and crank a couple cranks. This way you don't overflow cylinders with gas...

dividedas1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AcidFr33ze &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Timing is timing.Modified by AcidFr33ze at 5:43 PM 8/1/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

yay common sense lol he's right though. timing is timing, TDC is TDC unless he was using adjustable cam gears there really couldnt be too much to mess with. hell i dont ever use manuals to time motors, just a timing gun or as the OP did it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AcidFr33ze &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think I will now debate the SI / GTI options. And work on the car on the spare time.</TD></TR></TABLE>

not a bad idea, both of those sound like fun cars how ever it this was me, i would be sourcing a new head or possible a new single cam motor... just get it running
sohc long blocks can be had cheap in the marketplace or on craigslist

94EG8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AcidFr33ze &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Timing is timing. What I did. Top camshaft you level the two lines and make sure the word "top" is on top. And on the crankshaft pulley, you have the key at 12 o'clock and the marker lined up with the arrow at around 2 o'clock. And then stick the long screw driver in the cylinder #1 (next to camshaft) and make sure its at the highest point.

I was very nervous about setting the timing so I triple checked everything. But hey, I know we are human so I am going to double check everything.

I am curioius to see the compression numbers though.


Modified by AcidFr33ze at 5:43 PM 8/1/2008</TD></TR></TABLE>

All i was getting at was with the D15B7 you line the marks on the cam gear up with the upper surface of the head, with the Z6/Z1 you use the marks on the timing cover, there is a slight difference in where the cam gear ends up. I'm not saying you didn't time it right, i'm just trying to offer a possible solution, i'd still try timing it again though if the compression test comes back ok.

dividedas1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94EG8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'd still try timing it again though if the compression test comes back ok.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i agree, that would be my next step in figuring it out.