CiSmoEk4

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by eg crunkmonster &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you would drop the compression a little bit
</TD></TR></TABLE>

a gsr head on a b16 would definitely not lower the compression, it would raise it. The combustion chambers in a gsr head are smaller than the b16's which will in turn raise your compression. So IMO..a gsr head on a b16 would not be slower

p.s. i might want to add in that i have a lightly ported GSR head on my B16 w/ .25 OS CTRs

91civicDXdude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by wts myself &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">exactly. the range of lift that normal camshafts utilize is where the b16 outflows the b18.

the b18 head only outflows the b16 head after .475 valve lift. no streetable cam lifts that much.

the b16 head flows a little better than the b18 head </TD></TR></TABLE>

i run comp/zex 57200 stage 2 cams and they have .490/.450 lift

OMG Dj N3WAG3

b16 head is more aggressive then the b18 head...it shares the same casting as of the type r motor...b18 head is better for turbo thats why alot of people use the b16 head with the Ls/vtec and b20/vtec setup

bermanator

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattcxb18 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How is the same head going to flow better with FI or NA? It should not matter. The flows would come down to the port size and cam lift. It should not matter if air is being pushed or pulled in.</TD></TR></TABLE>

NOT TRUE. For NA, slightly smaller ports is actually better. If done properly, it can increase the intake velocity more than enough to make up for the downgrade in size. This is particularly effective with ITBs or a quad-carb setup.

For FI though, in almost every case, bigger is better when it comes to making max power.

Sirfallsalot243

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OMG Dj N3WAG3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">b16 head is more aggressive then the b18 head...it shares the same casting as of the type r motor...b18 head is better for turbo thats why alot of people use the b16 head with the Ls/vtec and b20/vtec setup </TD></TR></TABLE>

I disagree. Do you know why the ITR head is the same casting as the B16? Because honda made several hundred extra B16 heads. Rather than trashing them, they ported and polished them and used them on an ITR.

The B18C1 head is a more aggressive head for NA setups. While it is true, the B16 flows better- a GSR head will produce more power due to the higher compression ratio that it yeilds. This is due to a smaller combustion chamber. Not to mention that the GSR cams are slightly larger than the B16 cams. For an LSVTEC setup, a GSR head will make more power. (Stock heads, and same block).

F20Cteg

B16 is only better because of the valve angle differences. The PR3 casting has 26 degree valve angles while the P72 casting has 27 degree valve angles.

This results in a slightly less angle for the flow into the head. Not much, but still is a difference.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

projectek

So why is it so popular for GSR guys to put b16 heads on their motors? Does it not bump compression up? Or am I just getting this confused with Ls/Vtec ste-ups?

ekgcool

Are you refering to a poor-mans R? Using a PR3 head on a B18c1 block will yield lower compression, but take away the two stage intake manifold, possibly creating more top-end power...In ALL REALITY....Using either a PR3 or P72 head on any Honda bulid will make power, bepending on the set-up. Any good head porter can match or even exceed the CFM difference between the 2 heads. Cams dont discriminate against head castings. Bigger cams can be benificial to both heads. If you have a GSR head GOOD! If you have a B16 head GOOD! Build it using better than stock parts and there is your horsepower...Also if .2 compression less is going to **** you off, get high comp. valves

schardbody

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bermanator &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

NOT TRUE. For NA, slightly smaller ports is actually better. If done properly, it can increase the intake velocity more than enough to make up for the downgrade in size. This is particularly effective with ITBs or a quad-carb setup.

For FI though, in almost every case, bigger is better when it comes to making max power.</TD></TR></TABLE>

also not true, valve size, runner length, manifold cross section, all play a part in the powerband and peak output rpm, BUT unless one is EXTREMELY more restrictive than the other, DISPLACEMENT IS THE DETERMINING FACTOR FOR PEAK POWER.

Surfjunkie44

I may regret busting open this can of worms but youse guys are talking about what I wanna know... Sorry to hijack the thread.

Regardless of which head flows better my question relays more toward the cam aspect as this is not covered in the cam comparison FAQ's and since I have everyone's attention... I had heard that a lot of guys swapped cams mixing and matching B16 with GSR/CTR/ITR intake and exhaust cams. I know it is a popular setup to exchange cams in Suzuki motorcycles in between the 600 to 750 class and the 750 to the 1000 class as well as swapping velocity stacks etc. On an NA vs. turbo build which cams would be most appropriate for each setup? I know this leaves a lot of speculation but I'm curious to know what everyone's opinions are... I know the most efficient setup would be to simply purchase aftermarket valvetrain components but not all of us have a $1000+ directly after finishing a swap to drop into toys.

aRedSoxFanANDaCRXowner

u killed that thread congrats

boosted_EM1

haha^

Felliph3

THERES ONE SAYING B16 HEADS ARE BETTER AND OTHERS SAYING THE B18C HEAD IS BETTER.

FOR NA WHICH IS BETTER?

FOR TURBO WHICH IS BETTER?

LETS SUM IT UP!!!

Theres people saying this or that isnt true so whats the deal?

B16 block with B18 head&gt;higher comp,more hp?

B18 block with B16 head&gt;more displacement,lower comp,more hp?


Im all confused now,what about for turbo setups what would be the deal?

Sick EM1

so you think a b16 with performance cams can beat a b18 stock?

Nicaraguense13

wow this thread confused me more.

From what ive Seen alot of ppl use GSR head on Turbo setups but at the same time in N/A builds but in the N/A build i see even amount GSR AND B16. SO SOMEONE SUM IT UP FOR ME BEFORE I BUILD A MOTOR!!!!! B16 OR GSR FOR A NA BUILD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHICH ONE LMAO

doood

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nicaraguense13 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wow this thread confused me more.

From what ive Seen alot of ppl use GSR head on Turbo setups but at the same time in N/A builds but in the N/A build i see even amount GSR AND B16. SO SOMEONE SUM IT UP FOR ME BEFORE I BUILD A MOTOR!!!!! B16 OR GSR FOR A NA BUILD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHICH ONE LMAO</TD></TR></TABLE>

the cheapest, most complete, least jacked up one you can find.

PeakBoostEg

intrested to see which is better...especially since i have a B18c and i am planning to boost. so the b16 flows better but the b18 has better compression and better cams right???

93hondaEG

Well i am bout to make a purchase of a b18c1 and noticed that the head is stamped pr34 so i was wondering if its a good deal... or should i just hold back and get a full GSR... thanks

cityslicker1606

nobody wants any part in this thread lol

Deetz

x2 This thread is old, and not accurate

93hondaEG

So can anybody answer my question... about the b18c1 bottom with pr3-4 head

Deetz

Get a compression test done.

Someone has used a gsr block with B16 head to make a poor mans type r. Nothing wrong with it, the heads both on exactly the same

thumper64

This has been covered several times here. Quit beating a dead horse. The B16 does flow a bit better...stock. The GSR is better for higher compression and you can always get ITR style undercut valves and get a port and slight polish job.

98civdx

god, when will this **** die, the b16 flows a tiny bit more.
the last time i looked at a graph the gsr flows more in mid range b16 a tiny bit high rpm


deetz you should post that graph..........

Jayman_Gsr

I know this goes on forever but I just could not help but to post.

Im referring to the heads as being completely stock while doing the comparison for setups:

The B16 head will be a better choice for turbo applications (STOCK) due to the fact that it lowers compression and flows better (If using on B18a/b/c, B16 already have this head so no compression will be lost), HOWEVER, the B16 head comparing the same engine size, same compression, same cams (use CTR just for reference) will yield more power. The GSR head will yield more compression on "stock" motors to achieve more power, It doesn't do bad with boost either. (Im still using the example from above with Identical setups)

In short either head can be ported and machined to the same specs so if you plan on building either then whichever you can find a better deal on go with that...

cheers!