hcaulfield57

Hi all, I just purchased a 93' DX hatchback from my coworker and had a few questions to post here. The car has over 200,000 miles on it and is kind of in rough shape, but I bought it with the intentions of making a reliable daily driver / canyon carver. I love driving and working on cars, and this is the first "fun" FWD car I've owned, so doing a lot of learning here, everything has been RWD before, wanted to try something different. I want to see if a FWD car can be as fun as a RWD car to drive - already enjoying the Civic alot. I plan to basically rebuild the entire car as a project, something to do after work. Anyways, some issues I've noticed:

- The steering is quite "woolly". It doesn't have a ton of play, but feels too light and doesn't have much feedback. When I bought the car the steering was super heavy, but the tires were basically worn all the way down. I got new all seasons today, and the steering is much lighter, but I almost feel like there is less feedback. The previous owner told me that the car had power steering, but opening the hood looks like it has a manual steering rack. There's no pump at least, and no lines on the steering rack. Manual steering was a must for me, so I was planning on swapping a manual rack if it didn't have it. Was a manual steering rack an option on the DX? I couldn't figure it out, I remember reading somewhere that manual 5 speeds (which I have) came with manual steering, but I don't remember. What is the steering normally like on these cars? I assume pretty much the whole suspension is worn to an oblivion, and maybe the steering rack too - I'm going to rebuild the entire suspension and possibly steering rack too, I might end up going with a Quaife quick steering rack, but we'll see once I fix the suspension first.

- When letting out the clutch, especially from 1st to 2nd gear, I almost always hear a clunk, is this representative of some issue? The car seems to shift smooth, and I don't notice any noises or clunking when turning. The CV boots are a bit torn, so I assume the axles will have to be rebuilt sooner or later.

Thanks all, I always kind of looked down on Hondas because of the whole ricer image, but I've learned to appreciate them a lot. My Civic with a curb weight under 2,200 lbs, double wishbone suspension at all four corners, no driver aids, etc. has a lot of features that many sports cars would be envious of. I'm having a lot of fun restoring the car so far. I'm looking forward to continuing to ask technical questions and learning here.

Grant

TomCat39

Please indicate if you are talking about a CDM car or a USDM car.

I believe the offerings are a little different between the CDM and USDM on the various trim levels of the 92-95.

hcaulfield57

This is a USDM car (although manufactured in Canada according to the VIN). Part of what I'm trying to figure out was if the car was converted at some point to manual steering, because I would like to ensure it was done properly, if so. Like I said, the previous owner told me that it had power steering, but there is only one belt on the engine (no A/C) and definitely no lines on the steering rack. There is one "unused" pulley on the crank, but I dunno if they were like that if not optioned with other things. The car has no ABS, manual windows, locks, etc. This is just the way I like it, but I was under the impression DX's usually had more options on them. The only option I recognize is the radio.

TomCat39

I understand.

The reason why I prompted you to indicate which market was because as far as I know, manual rack was only on some CX models in CDM cars. But the CX is far from the same between USDM and CDM. CDM CX received the 16 valve D15B7 just like the DX while only the DX in the USDM car received the D15B7, the CX was the 8 valve D15B8.

So I really don't know if the steering rack bit I think I know for CDM applies to USDM cars.

FYI USDM cars then were manufactured in Canada and shipped down.

I'm hoping one of the long time guru users can answer your questions more definitively.

BryanM.

iTrader: (1)

'92-'95 CX and DX did not have PS in the US. The did have a 2 belt crank pulley though, which was for optional AC. It's strange they would offer AC but not PS, but Honda did weird stuff in the '90s.

hcaulfield57

Interesting, thanks for the responses. Glad to know that the DX came with manual steering. What is the steering like when everything is in proper working order? I'm actually shocked by how light the steering is, although I've only ever driven one other car with manual steering (my 83' RX-7, which is a bad example since it does not have rack and pinion).

I've heard a lot of praise for the manual steering on the CRX, and I'd assume these Civics are quite good when new as well. To me, the steering is lacking in "feel" right now, it almost feels numb like power steering. I can wobble the steering wheel quite a bit ~1" in either direction with little reaction from the car. I'm not super concerned because I'm well aware almost all the suspension probably needs to be rebuilt, but I'm just curious. Maybe I'm just not used to it.

Another question:

- What's the deal with the jacking point on the front of the car. According to the factory service manual it's a little bit off-center towards the driver's side. When I jack the car from there it comes up uneven and it's hard to get a jack-stand under the passenger side. The rear suspension looks like it's compressing a ton when lifting the car from the front.

DJackson1357

The manual steering is only somewhat heavy at low speeds. Once the vehicle is moving it doesn't have much weight to it and is pretty similar to a PS equipped car. Regarding the slop in the steering, there are a lot of things it could be but look into the rack and pinion adjustment. There is an adjustment nut on the rack that can help remove some of the slack. A quick google search will give you lots of info on that. Not sure what you need tool wise doing it while the rack is in the car, I've only done it while the rack is out.

The jack point is a bit off center. I just lift the car high enough to get the passenger side under. If you have a smaller jack that might cause issues, I just use my larger jack to make sure I get it high enough. The suspension on these cars is pretty soft from the factory so it'll compress a lot while jacking it up. It's normal.

TomCat39

I was going to get to this exact adjustment, just have been short on time. It's a 40mm flat wrench that is needed. Honda offers a special flat box end wrench just for this job but might be discontinued now.



There is also the two towing/hold down plates up front that can be used to jack the front of the car up. I use these all the time for front end jacking.

One on each side of the front. It's where the flatbed truck would hook chain to so as to tie down the front of the car.

hcaulfield57

Thanks for the responses so far everyone.

With regards to the steering, it just feels a bit "floaty" and light. There doesn't seem to be as much feedback and communication as I was expecting from manual rack and pinion. The steering just feels a bit like power steering to be honest. Although I have no reason to believe it won't improve, I already plan on rebuilding everything in the suspension anyways. My only experience with a manual steering system prior to owning my Civic is my RX-7, which has a manual recirculating-ball steering box. The RX-7's steering is a lot heavier, but feels like it has better feedback, however the suspension on that car is quite stiff and brand new, and the steering box has only 60,000 miles on it compared to the Civic's 203,000 miles. Anyways I'll get it sorted! On the steering rack adjustment, I did see that when I was browsing through the service manual, but I'll probably hold off until I decide what to do with the car in terms of suspension. I'm kind of in between whether I want to leave the suspension stock or not. Even with the high mileage and loads of body roll, the car seems to handle quite well and seems very nimble and eager. I'd imagine with sway-bars and uprated springs and shocks it'd handle quite well!

Is there anything in particular you all would recommend checking on the car? The engine feels strong, and the gear-change is really nice (aside from an occasional studder between 1st and 2nd). The body is in rough condition, I'm going to have to repair the rust and most likely repaint the car. I'm going through the entire brake system first: lines, rotors, drums, pads and shoes. After that I'll probably rebuild the axles and then suspension. I'll post some pictures later!

TomCat39

One reason your manual steering feels "light" is that it has the longest lock to lock of Honda racks. They do this on purpose for ease of turning. The integra PS rack can be looped and has the fastest (shortest) lock to lock for the era. But that in turn means a more arm strong requirement for turning when you are not moving.

You are already going to be attacking the main concerns of the old car. Suspension bushings and the rear fender rust are the main two.

Then on the manual transmission it's very common for the input shaft bearing to be worn and need replacing.

In the faq sticky we recently added the common trouble area thread for the 92-00. The thread needs a little cleanup and is a bit overkill as it's not just the design flaws but also currently has normal wear items in it. But it can give you the majority of the common problem areas of your car. I'm linking it below:

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...areas-3270665/

BryanM.

iTrader: (1)

I had a CX and a DX hatch and absolutely LOVED the manual rack feel. One of my favorite aspects of those old econoboxes.

If the rack adjustment doesn't help, consider getting a rebuilt rack. RockAuto has them for cheap, especially if you return the core. They are a pain to replace though...

hcaulfield57

Thanks for the link, my car seems to have a lot of those problems. Body-wise the paint is peeling on the hood and the driver's side rear fender has a nice rust spot. Bushings are on the list as well as the rest of the suspension. I have a hydraulic press, so that should make easy work of the bushings.

Okay great, this is what I was looking for. I just wanted to make sure mine wasn't "as good as it gets". Glad to know it will be nice once it's fixed. The steering is just real vague and floaty right now. I'll either adjust/replace the steering rack or possibly rebuild with Quaife internals.

This car has some serious body roll, and when I refresh the suspension I'll probably upgrade things while I'm there. I think the car should be a great handler with a stiffer suspension and some swaybars.