1996CivicLX

(sorry for the long post)

Background:

Purchased the car a few months ago for a commuter to work. Car ran perfect with the exception of a weak battery. Replaced battery and it would fire up immediatel right when hitting the key. Ran great. The Timing belt was past due for service. So i replaced belt, tensioner and water pump.

While I was there - I compression tested the car since it has high miles - and it came out fine. That is where the issue started. I did not disconnect the FI/EFI/ECM (15amp by the battery) Fuse or the distributor connector. SO, I cooked the ICM and Coil after troubleshooting.

Current Issue:
I replaced the ICM and Coil - and put in a fresh set of plugs since they had been fouled by the fuel on the compression test. Got the car to start (barely), but it ran like crap only holding idle with my foot on gas. That passed after a bit and it idled - but with some missing. I jumped the service port to start the ignition timing process. The distributor has to be fully retarded to get close to timing it out - and it seems to run smoother when I do that. While I was timing it the car idled down, stumbled, and died. I had lost spark. After troubleshooting it pointed to the coil - which had been cooked again. I have a feeling my timing light did this since it's old school and sits in between plug 1 and the wire with a spiral connector. It isn't the type that just simply goes over the plug wire. The plug wire was connected to the plug, but my light sat in between the two.

Yesterday I double checked the mechanical timing (since on the previous run the car would not come close to timing out) - and it is spot on (D16Y7 timing marks are not flat w/ the cylinder head, but the aarows on the timing cover - putting the right side a tooth higher than the left). Replaced the coil again - car started up a bit better this time but not perfect. Idled and kinda stumbled here and there - but smoothed out with the occasional miss. Once it hit operating temperature timing was still not close to spec - even with distributor completely retarded (the timing light this time was a neighbors and just goes over a wire). Car then stumbled, died and refused to give me spark. After sitting and waiting (and cussing) about 5 minutes - I then noticed smoke started pooring out of the distributor (the ignition was still on - i had been starting the car w/ my external starter switch).

Opened the distributor and the ICM had completely melted itself right in the middle of the top side. There is also some some kind of residue on the inside of the cap since I had noticed the first time the Coil had gone out.

I am at a loss here. From what I understand if the CPS or the TDC sensor go out - they just die and that's it. But my car will run and try to run. I attempted to disconnect the CPS after reading stuff on the forums but I can't get to the connection under the intake manifold without going in from underneath and removing the alternator. Didn't feel like doing that for the heck of it.

The CEL comes on for 2 seconds after turning the key on and goes back off - that rules out the ECM from what I understand - as I hear a click after the cel goes off. You can hear the fuel pump turn on and fuel pressure is fine - and obviously would not cause the ICM to cook itself - ruling out the fuel pump (i have fuel and injector pulse).

There has been no CEL's ever thru out this entire process.

What are the next steps here? Try a new distributor and fresh plug wires? I am wondering if my compression test didn't cook something else in the distributor and is causing the entire thing to short out - and if the lack of resistance to a plug may have cooked a 1 plug wire or more (all were disconnected).

I just find this very odd since the car ran perfect before my stupid a$$ touched it.

tony_2018

you probably didnt wire up the coil and igniter correctly, gonna need pics

1996CivicLX

The other item to note - once I got the second new coil installed stalled- when I checked the pulse on the negative side of the coil - the light was very bright - not dim like the rest i see on forums and youtubel.

tony_2018

https://honda-tech.com/honda-civic-d...tions-1998336/

Go down to this section, see image below.

1996CivicLX

Thanks. I see that on the same side as the side connection of the ICM (blue) there is a white/blue connector on the front. Looking at mine - I see questionable yellow/questionable green. I can't even find a whilte/blue wire in there. My pics support that find. My blue wire looks green (could have faded?) and the one that is supposed to be white/blue could have faded to that yellowish color?

Anyways, the yellow/green is hooked up correct, black hello correct, and the wire that should be white / blue (looks yellow / green faded for me) is going to the - on the coil. The black/yellow is going to the + on the coil.

I am not seeing an issue w/ the wiring based on above link. Only 2 of the wires have screw terminals and they are hooked up right. (even though the white/blue one is very faded). Black/yellow goes to terminal A on coil (+) and white/blue goes to terminal B(-). That is what I am seeing. Before the ICM melted this time the pulse light was very bright - now I have none. On the youtube vids I have watched, the pulse light is very dim.

tony_2018

Go to the link I gave you and do some troubleshooting. Also see below for wiring. You're gonna have to blow it up to see closer. I captured the whole page just in case.

1996CivicLX

I am not seeing a wiring issue.

Are you asking me to follow the troubleshooting steps in the image you posted for the input test on the ICM? As for the other link posted - I have done a number of those.

I have confirmed the following:
1) Power to the distributor harness
2) pulse from the EMC to distributor harness (using led tester)
3) The ICM is melted (not sure what to troubleshoot here - what is what I am trying to understand what caused that)
4) All resistances on the coil are good right now @ 68 degrees F.
5) Before the ICM cooked itself - i had spark - and enough to keep the car running. With an occasional misfire.
6) I have fuel (injectors pulse fuel)
7) Fuel pressure OK
8) Main relay works (CEL comes on and goes of after 2 seconds with a click noise)
9) Mechanical timing in check

Sorry to seem dense - what else are you asking me to troubleshoot? Once it shops raining I will go do the input test for the ICM as outlined in the image.

1996CivicLX

The input test for the ICM passed.

tony_2018

What are the results..........

1996CivicLX

1) BLK/YEL to Groud - 12v Present - Passed
2) WHT/BLUE to Ground - 12v present - passed
3) YEL/GRN at ECM to YEL/GRN @ ICM - continuity - passed
4) yel/grn to body ground - no continuity - passed
5) tach test to blue wire on ICM - continuity - passed
6) blue to ground - no continuity - passed

1996CivicLX

I do know the oil seal on the shaft of the distributor has been letting it leak oil. Could the oil be leaking into the distributor and causing issues? I am really at a loss on this one - since the car ran perfect before my maintenance.

tony_2018

If you did the test as you described, I'm sure you would've notice oil leak inside the distributor.

Also what I'm looking for is not a "pass/not pass" answer. I'm looking for the specs/details of your results if you had follow the guide, in the link that I provided, than you should know what I'm looking for.

tony_2018

Did you check the ecu fuse?

1996CivicLX

I will check the ECU fuse.

I saw no oil in the distributor.

Are you wanting me to provide more details on the Input Test results?

The continuity was tested w/ my ohm tester on the continuity setting - and it would beep when I had continuity and not beep when I had no continuity. The 12v was tested w/ a test light. Do you need the specific voltages? Not sure how much more detail I can give on the Input Test above. The test asks for "battery voltage" so a test light was used. And it asks for "continuity" so a continuity tester was used.

1996CivicLX

Please let me know what additional details are required and I can provide them.

tony_2018

Check this, and make sure that your spark plug wires are making a connection with the spark plugs, also make sure the firing order is correct.

Former User

Post pictures of the residue inside the distributor.

How old are the plug wires, cap, and rotor?

1996CivicLX

Plugs, cap and rotor were brand new - never used before I fired it up this time.. Plugs were NGK gapped at .044..

I only see the residue under the cap after the car runs - its not there right now.

I tested the plug wires tonight (they are blue NGK's) and all had resistance < 6 ohm. They are 1 year old and look brand new.

Once the rain clears out I will get more info on the tests above, either Thursday or Friday.

1996CivicLX

Took the plugs out tonight and they are clean and still gapped at .044.

I am waiting on parts for the distributor (just ordered a new distributor) - since the ignitor is toast and I actually had stripped out one of the bolts holding the ignitor in place and not repalced it when I replaced it the first time - so the ignitor was only being held in place by 1 bolt not 2.. Not sure if that added to it burning up this time.

So to be completely thorough I have checked the mechanical timing again tonight and reset the tension on the new timing belt. Below are the pictures of the mechanical timing after setting the tension per spec (moving 3 teeth past tdc, re-tension, etc). These pics is after turning the engine over 12 times w/ a breaker bar.

Any other items I should check before installing the new distributor when it comes in and trying to fire it up? I really don't want to cook another distributor for the hell of it. I am probably going to replace the Crank Position Sensor since it's kind of hard to get to, and I am already in there. And the car is old w/ alot of miles.

Here is the crank:



Right cam mark:



Left cam mark:

Former User

TDC1 for the cam is when the pulley marks align with the top surface of the head. The marks on the cam pulley are present on both the front and rear sides of the pulley. I find the rear ones most useful to verify proper alignment.

1996CivicLX

I have found so many conflicting write ups while researching this I am thankful you posted this.

So for the D16Y7 I should be lining up the marks on the back of the cam pulley with the head surface - disregarding the front arrows which are not in line with the head.

Former User

yes

Rely less on the internet and more on the service manual for basic information about your car.

1996CivicLX

I have a copy of the service manual and will stick to it from now on.

New distributor came in today. I double checked mechanical timing using razor blade / top of the head - and it was spot on. I got everything put back together and checked the fit of the plug wires on each plug - which was good.

The car fired right up so I followed the process to set ignition timing. It's been running in the driveway now for over an hour without issue.

Whatever I burned up on the distributor when cranking the car without the plug wires attached sure did a number on it. I am saving the old housing and taking it apart just to see what else burned up.

Thanks for the assistance.

Former User

The coil

1996CivicLX

I had originally burned up the coil and the ICM - which were both replaced after testing bad.

I then started it and it ran like crap while warming up, died, and smoke started pouring out of the distributor. The ICM had melted.

That's when I opened this thread. I also could not get the timing anywhere close the first time it started up - even though the mechanical timing was spot on.