third gear issue official discussion thread (3rd, grind, etc) - INCLUDES ACTUAL TSB from HONDA
05-16-2008, 10:52 AM
#76
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this rocks - i have had several debates with my local garage when i first got the car- they told me it was a "safety" application by Honda or some **** like that - im taking this PDF service invoice into them and im going to hang their asses u rock
05-16-2008, 05:30 PM
#77
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Well in typical HONDA fashion they declined to perform the Service Bulletin.....stating they could not "duplicate" the problem.
Exactly what I expected to hear.
Told me they couldn't get it to act up, pop out, grind, nothing. He stated that it "WILL" get worse. They said they've already had a couple Si's come in with completely stripped 3rd gears. The advisor stated that Honda would not fix the problem unless the dealership could prove something was wrong. Since it wouldn't act up....they would not fix it.
So what I was thinking to myself was "Well if you've already had this issue before....and you say it WILL get worse.....then why not fix it before it gets to that point??"
Seems like a pretty reasonable theory. But maybe i'm just an idiot who should believe that waiting for the 3rd gear to completely take a **** before being able to get it repaired is perfectly justified
I guess these people have never heard of PREVENTATIVE SERVICE/REPAIRS before.
Pretty sad actually. But oh well. WTF can I do!??
Exactly what I expected to hear.
Told me they couldn't get it to act up, pop out, grind, nothing. He stated that it "WILL" get worse. They said they've already had a couple Si's come in with completely stripped 3rd gears. The advisor stated that Honda would not fix the problem unless the dealership could prove something was wrong. Since it wouldn't act up....they would not fix it.
So what I was thinking to myself was "Well if you've already had this issue before....and you say it WILL get worse.....then why not fix it before it gets to that point??"
Seems like a pretty reasonable theory. But maybe i'm just an idiot who should believe that waiting for the 3rd gear to completely take a **** before being able to get it repaired is perfectly justified
I guess these people have never heard of PREVENTATIVE SERVICE/REPAIRS before.
Pretty sad actually. But oh well. WTF can I do!??
05-17-2008, 09:35 AM
#79
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Re: (RICO_)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICO_ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well in typical HONDA fashion they declined to perform the Service Bulletin.....stating they could not "duplicate" the problem.
Exactly what I expected to hear.
Told me they couldn't get it to act up, pop out, grind, nothing. He stated that it "WILL" get worse. They said they've already had a couple Si's come in with completely stripped 3rd gears. The advisor stated that Honda would not fix the problem unless the dealership could prove something was wrong. Since it wouldn't act up....they would not fix it.
So what I was thinking to myself was "Well if you've already had this issue before....and you say it WILL get worse.....then why not fix it before it gets to that point??"
Seems like a pretty reasonable theory. But maybe i'm just an idiot who should believe that waiting for the 3rd gear to completely take a **** before being able to get it repaired is perfectly justified
I guess these people have never heard of PREVENTATIVE SERVICE/REPAIRS before.
Pretty sad actually. But oh well. WTF can I do!?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Being persistent is the key to having this service performed. I continued to bring my car in and even went as far as meeting the area field tech/parts and service manager from Honda Corp. and went on a test drive with him.....and after a year of complaining they decided to go ahead and perform the service. All i can say is be polite and persistent and choose a good dealership.
Exactly what I expected to hear.
Told me they couldn't get it to act up, pop out, grind, nothing. He stated that it "WILL" get worse. They said they've already had a couple Si's come in with completely stripped 3rd gears. The advisor stated that Honda would not fix the problem unless the dealership could prove something was wrong. Since it wouldn't act up....they would not fix it.
So what I was thinking to myself was "Well if you've already had this issue before....and you say it WILL get worse.....then why not fix it before it gets to that point??"
Seems like a pretty reasonable theory. But maybe i'm just an idiot who should believe that waiting for the 3rd gear to completely take a **** before being able to get it repaired is perfectly justified
I guess these people have never heard of PREVENTATIVE SERVICE/REPAIRS before.
Pretty sad actually. But oh well. WTF can I do!??
</TD></TR></TABLE>Being persistent is the key to having this service performed. I continued to bring my car in and even went as far as meeting the area field tech/parts and service manager from Honda Corp. and went on a test drive with him.....and after a year of complaining they decided to go ahead and perform the service. All i can say is be polite and persistent and choose a good dealership.
05-18-2008, 07:45 AM
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Re: (RICO_)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RICO_ »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well in typical HONDA fashion they declined to perform the Service Bulletin.....stating they could not "duplicate" the problem.
Exactly what I expected to hear.
Told me they couldn't get it to act up, pop out, grind, nothing. He stated that it "WILL" get worse. They said they've already had a couple Si's come in with completely stripped 3rd gears. The advisor stated that Honda would not fix the problem unless the dealership could prove something was wrong. Since it wouldn't act up....they would not fix it.
So what I was thinking to myself was "Well if you've already had this issue before....and you say it WILL get worse.....then why not fix it before it gets to that point??"
Seems like a pretty reasonable theory. But maybe i'm just an idiot who should believe that waiting for the 3rd gear to completely take a **** before being able to get it repaired is perfectly justified
I guess these people have never heard of PREVENTATIVE SERVICE/REPAIRS before.
Pretty sad actually. But oh well. WTF can I do!?? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I know you're frustrated. I am too, because while my trans does not act up nearly as much as most people, it still does occasionally grind third gear. However, my car does not even fall within the VIN range of the TSB. It is a little frustrating to know that they probably won't even look at it.
But, you have to look at it from Honda's point of view. They are losing money on every single TSB repair they do. I believe you when you say your car has the problem, but Honda has to consider the fact that you could be someone looking for the repair, without having any problems at all. Wait is the only thing you can do. When it gets worse, and it will get worse, you can rub in the advisor's face. Until then, just try and deal with it, ya know?
Honda is crossing their fingers that all of the people's cars that did not "duplicate the problem" will fall out of the mileage range, before they are able to duplicate the problem, thus saving them a lot of money.
Exactly what I expected to hear.
Told me they couldn't get it to act up, pop out, grind, nothing. He stated that it "WILL" get worse. They said they've already had a couple Si's come in with completely stripped 3rd gears. The advisor stated that Honda would not fix the problem unless the dealership could prove something was wrong. Since it wouldn't act up....they would not fix it.
So what I was thinking to myself was "Well if you've already had this issue before....and you say it WILL get worse.....then why not fix it before it gets to that point??"
Seems like a pretty reasonable theory. But maybe i'm just an idiot who should believe that waiting for the 3rd gear to completely take a **** before being able to get it repaired is perfectly justified
I guess these people have never heard of PREVENTATIVE SERVICE/REPAIRS before.
Pretty sad actually. But oh well. WTF can I do!??
</TD></TR></TABLE>I know you're frustrated. I am too, because while my trans does not act up nearly as much as most people, it still does occasionally grind third gear. However, my car does not even fall within the VIN range of the TSB. It is a little frustrating to know that they probably won't even look at it.
But, you have to look at it from Honda's point of view. They are losing money on every single TSB repair they do. I believe you when you say your car has the problem, but Honda has to consider the fact that you could be someone looking for the repair, without having any problems at all. Wait is the only thing you can do. When it gets worse, and it will get worse, you can rub in the advisor's face. Until then, just try and deal with it, ya know?
Honda is crossing their fingers that all of the people's cars that did not "duplicate the problem" will fall out of the mileage range, before they are able to duplicate the problem, thus saving them a lot of money.
05-19-2008, 04:42 AM
#81
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Re: (2008fijibluesi)
As stated, the problems only going to get worse as you continue to drive on it with the problem. Drive on it until is a constant problem and then they will easily be able to diag it. I know its 
but its how some dealerships are ran.
but its how some dealerships are ran.
05-19-2008, 02:00 PM
#82
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Re: (2008fijibluesi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2008fijibluesi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I know you're frustrated. I am too, because while my trans does not act up nearly as much as most people, it still does occasionally grind third gear. However, my car does not even fall within the VIN range of the TSB. It is a little frustrating to know that they probably won't even look at it.
But, you have to look at it from Honda's point of view. They are losing money on every single TSB repair they do. I believe you when you say your car has the problem, but Honda has to consider the fact that you could be someone looking for the repair, without having any problems at all. Wait is the only thing you can do. When it gets worse, and it will get worse, you can rub in the advisor's face. Until then, just try and deal with it, ya know?
Honda is crossing their fingers that all of the people's cars that did not "duplicate the problem" will fall out of the mileage range, before they are able to duplicate the problem, thus saving them a lot of money.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You can't actually say that they're losing money on every single TSB repair because when we buy the car, we buy their warranty. We pay for warranty for something right? So it's all in there, they're not losing any money. We bought the car with warranty, so if something happens they HAVE to fix it.
I know you're frustrated. I am too, because while my trans does not act up nearly as much as most people, it still does occasionally grind third gear. However, my car does not even fall within the VIN range of the TSB. It is a little frustrating to know that they probably won't even look at it.
But, you have to look at it from Honda's point of view. They are losing money on every single TSB repair they do. I believe you when you say your car has the problem, but Honda has to consider the fact that you could be someone looking for the repair, without having any problems at all. Wait is the only thing you can do. When it gets worse, and it will get worse, you can rub in the advisor's face. Until then, just try and deal with it, ya know?
Honda is crossing their fingers that all of the people's cars that did not "duplicate the problem" will fall out of the mileage range, before they are able to duplicate the problem, thus saving them a lot of money.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You can't actually say that they're losing money on every single TSB repair because when we buy the car, we buy their warranty. We pay for warranty for something right? So it's all in there, they're not losing any money. We bought the car with warranty, so if something happens they HAVE to fix it.
05-21-2008, 12:07 AM
#83
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Re: (xitrumd02)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xitrumd02 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You can't actually say that they're losing money on every single TSB repair because when we buy the car, we buy their warranty. We pay for warranty for something right? So it's all in there, they're not losing any money. We bought the car with warranty, so if something happens they HAVE to fix it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's not entirely true with a TSB. With Recalls, yes they (Honda Corp) HAVE to fix it with no question, and no testing. With a TSB, the Dealerships make the call whether your car is under warranty or not. This can be argued by both ends, as obviously people got lucky (like me) who got the 3rd gear fixed with the TSB even when they couldn't replicate. Many others get the shaft from the dealers. Different rules for TSB and Recalls. Also with recalls, Honda sends letters to the owners. My Recall for the ABS sensor was sent to me. Never any TSB was sent to me from Honda.
To make light of the situation, I have read that some other went to the BBB and supposedly in less than 24 hours, Honda contacted a local dealership to envoke the TSB fix. I can't verify this though personally, but it's by furryferret7888 on 8th http://www.8thcivic.com/forums....html
You can't actually say that they're losing money on every single TSB repair because when we buy the car, we buy their warranty. We pay for warranty for something right? So it's all in there, they're not losing any money. We bought the car with warranty, so if something happens they HAVE to fix it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's not entirely true with a TSB. With Recalls, yes they (Honda Corp) HAVE to fix it with no question, and no testing. With a TSB, the Dealerships make the call whether your car is under warranty or not. This can be argued by both ends, as obviously people got lucky (like me) who got the 3rd gear fixed with the TSB even when they couldn't replicate. Many others get the shaft from the dealers. Different rules for TSB and Recalls. Also with recalls, Honda sends letters to the owners. My Recall for the ABS sensor was sent to me. Never any TSB was sent to me from Honda.
To make light of the situation, I have read that some other went to the BBB and supposedly in less than 24 hours, Honda contacted a local dealership to envoke the TSB fix. I can't verify this though personally, but it's by furryferret7888 on 8th http://www.8thcivic.com/forums....html
05-24-2008, 07:17 PM
#84
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Sasebonian)
Does anyone feel that as a result of their thrid gear grind that other gears have gotten worse and have experienced clutch slipping? I'm at the point where my 1st through 3rd gear feel like the syncros are completely worn out as a result of grinding in third so many times. Has anyone had Honda replace their entire transmission? I do not think the third gear fix will make much of a difference as my first three gears drive like crap .
BTW I'm scheduled to have the 3rd gear fix performed but my dealership has informed me the parts are on national backorder. Can any Honda parts guys confirm this?
BTW I'm scheduled to have the 3rd gear fix performed but my dealership has informed me the parts are on national backorder. Can any Honda parts guys confirm this?
05-24-2008, 09:12 PM
#85
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Re: (CRXone)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRXone »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dealership has informed me the parts are on national backorder. Can any Honda parts guys confirm this? </TD></TR></TABLE>
i believe the BO situation. before i could have my fix performed, i had to wait quite some time before some of the parts, namely a bolt set, were available.
i believe the BO situation. before i could have my fix performed, i had to wait quite some time before some of the parts, namely a bolt set, were available.
05-27-2008, 02:02 PM
#87
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Re: (pgpbubble)
it's been perfect man! thanks.
BTW, that new tech you guys have, Harold, is an incredible tech. I know him from his Sussman days. He's REALLY fast with his work and knows his ****. I'm glad to see him at Rossi; Rossi is the only place i'll go.
BTW, that new tech you guys have, Harold, is an incredible tech. I know him from his Sussman days. He's REALLY fast with his work and knows his ****. I'm glad to see him at Rossi; Rossi is the only place i'll go.
05-27-2008, 02:44 PM
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Re: (builthatch)
yes, harold is a very cool guy, he's definitly great at what he does. He did an si trans sometime last week and it came back with no reverse, and we were all worried, but the car left with reverse. Turns out I gues the kid really wanted the trans to grind again cause the car came back with a broken shifter cable so nothing was at fault on harolds part. A new cable was in and out in a few hours and haven't seen the car since. 
05-27-2008, 03:14 PM
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Re: (xitrumd02)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xitrumd02 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
You can't actually say that they're losing money on every single TSB repair because when we buy the car, we buy their warranty. We pay for warranty for something right? So it's all in there, they're not losing any money. We bought the car with warranty, so if something happens they HAVE to fix it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Unless you buy an extended warranty, the warranty is included in the price of the car. The dealership loses money every free repair they do, whether or not there is a warranty. They have to pay a tech to do the repair and get no income to cover his labor. It's money out of their pocket, and that is why they are reluctant to do the fix, unless it is terribly obvious.
You can't actually say that they're losing money on every single TSB repair because when we buy the car, we buy their warranty. We pay for warranty for something right? So it's all in there, they're not losing any money. We bought the car with warranty, so if something happens they HAVE to fix it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Unless you buy an extended warranty, the warranty is included in the price of the car. The dealership loses money every free repair they do, whether or not there is a warranty. They have to pay a tech to do the repair and get no income to cover his labor. It's money out of their pocket, and that is why they are reluctant to do the fix, unless it is terribly obvious.
05-27-2008, 04:04 PM
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Re: (2008fijibluesi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2008fijibluesi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Unless you buy an extended warranty, the warranty is included in the price of the car. The dealership loses money every free repair they do, whether or not there is a warranty. They have to pay a tech to do the repair and get no income to cover his labor. It's money out of their pocket, and that is why they are reluctant to do the fix, unless it is terribly obvious.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the dealership gets reimbursed by honda, but only for the book hours for the job, and the book many times can be incredibly stingy. That means that they, the dealership, have to pay the tech for the job, but only get a portion back from Honda Corp. I can imagine it's the case with these tranny fixes. I'm sure Honda is cutting corners with the estimate for the job, so the dealer is reluctant. It's a funny thing tho, because many times there are jobs that a good tech can fly through and BEAT the book, so they are in essense genuinely making money off of the job. i'm sure pgpbubble can elaborate.
the bottom line is that no matter what, it's industry standard to have to reproduce the issue unless there is a recall. a TSB is nothing more than a guide, it's not a guarantee for repair. it most of the time IS an indication of a problem area though, since they would not have added the TSB if it wasn't a reported issue.
Unless you buy an extended warranty, the warranty is included in the price of the car. The dealership loses money every free repair they do, whether or not there is a warranty. They have to pay a tech to do the repair and get no income to cover his labor. It's money out of their pocket, and that is why they are reluctant to do the fix, unless it is terribly obvious.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the dealership gets reimbursed by honda, but only for the book hours for the job, and the book many times can be incredibly stingy. That means that they, the dealership, have to pay the tech for the job, but only get a portion back from Honda Corp. I can imagine it's the case with these tranny fixes. I'm sure Honda is cutting corners with the estimate for the job, so the dealer is reluctant. It's a funny thing tho, because many times there are jobs that a good tech can fly through and BEAT the book, so they are in essense genuinely making money off of the job. i'm sure pgpbubble can elaborate.
the bottom line is that no matter what, it's industry standard to have to reproduce the issue unless there is a recall. a TSB is nothing more than a guide, it's not a guarantee for repair. it most of the time IS an indication of a problem area though, since they would not have added the TSB if it wasn't a reported issue.
05-27-2008, 04:48 PM
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Re: (builthatch)
Exactly, the R/R of the transmission,cradle,third gear and an alignment pays 9 hours or so, Jason and Harold both complete them in around 5-6 hours. 
05-27-2008, 06:30 PM
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Re: (pgpbubble)
In my dealership's case, the service writer neglected to order the bolt set, so my car sat up on the lift for more than a week while they waited for parts. The tech had already disassembled my tranny. Once they finally got it fixed, they scraped the rear bumper, so they had to put on new plastic and paint it to match. I had their loaner for over 2 weeks.
I think it's safe to say they lost money on this warranty work. The car does drive like it should now. I did inspect the old parts, and surprisingly they didn't look bad at all.
I think it's safe to say they lost money on this warranty work. The car does drive like it should now. I did inspect the old parts, and surprisingly they didn't look bad at all.
06-04-2008, 06:38 AM
#94
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Re: (pgpbubble)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pgpbubble »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Now about 1/4 of the parts are on NATIONAL back order with no ETA!</TD></TR></TABLE>
hhaha great...meanwhile my tranny feels like its going to go out. Car barley grabs anymore and feels like its lost a lot of power. Hope that stuff comes in soon
Now about 1/4 of the parts are on NATIONAL back order with no ETA!</TD></TR></TABLE>
hhaha great...meanwhile my tranny feels like its going to go out. Car barley grabs anymore and feels like its lost a lot of power. Hope that stuff comes in soon
06-06-2008, 06:08 AM
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I dont own an Si but a 07 Acura CSX Type S and I was just in to do my A1 service this morning at Camco Acura. Appointment scheduled for next week to replace my 2nd and 3rd gear sets due to the TSB that came out today (ironically) for the 3rd gear grind.
06-16-2008, 04:56 AM
#97
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Re: (CivicSi2008PB)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicSi2008PB »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I jsut purchased my Si this Friday, it's brand new. Does this mean I won't have this problem, or this doesn't apply to mine?</TD></TR></TABLE>
If if feels fine you should be OK. Check your VIN if you are unsure:
2006–07 Civic Si 2-Door: ALL
2008 Civic Si 2-Door:
From VIN 2HGFG215.8H700001
thru 2HGFG215.8H701973
2007 Civic Si 4-Door: ALL
2008 Civic Si 4-Door:
From VIN 2HGFA555.8H700001
thru 2HGFA555.8H702465
If if feels fine you should be OK. Check your VIN if you are unsure:
2006–07 Civic Si 2-Door: ALL
2008 Civic Si 2-Door:
From VIN 2HGFG215.8H700001
thru 2HGFG215.8H701973
2007 Civic Si 4-Door: ALL
2008 Civic Si 4-Door:
From VIN 2HGFA555.8H700001
thru 2HGFA555.8H702465
06-23-2008, 06:49 PM
#98
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I am a technician at Hendrick Honda of Chas. SC. As previously stated, the more persistant you are about you problem they better off you will be. Even if you car doesn't meet the VIN criteria, Honda also extends Goodwill assistance to those who are out of warranty. I just performed this today on a 07 4dr Si. Not to bad of a job. For the tech above, 5-6 hours is kinda pushing it, too easy to leave out a minor detail.
06-28-2008, 07:40 AM
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Re: (Sasebonian)
what is the verdict for most people? a lotta of back and forth going on in this thread.. parts on back order, some people getting lucky with dealerships... is the tsb no good and you have to wait for a recall?