Tennisjon2002

I have a 2006 Honda Civic Si. May 1st 2009 I started having problems with my Clutch Master Cylinder (squeaking and popping) and my Sun Visor (breaking) (tsb: http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/a08-023.PDF ). I was less than a month outside of my 3 year warranty and had less than 31,000 miles on the car.

I bought the car brand new off the truck with less than 10 miles and I have babied the car ever since, never raced it, never abused it. During my 3 years of warranty I had an outrageous number of problems including:

• 2 defective power steering racks
• Tapping noise in the morning coming from engine bay that started after 2nd power steering rack was replaced. (been in 2 times and still not fixed)
• Both Sun visors cracked and replaced via the TSB
• Shift boot started tearing
• Front bump stops were replaced due to a popping noise via the TSB
• Side mirror had to be replaced because it shook so bad I couldn’t see out of it
• Rattles from A pillar, rear headliner and Rear Deck via TSB
• Steering wheel had to be replaced because it was disintegrating
• My Electric Trunk Release snapped and locked me out of my trunk
• Battery died, would not jump and left me stranded. Had to get towed.
• ECU reflashed for rev hang and bucking in first gear.
• AirBag Sensor Recall
• Rear seat latch broke

I also have the 3rd gear problem ( http://www.*************/forums/mechanical-...8-3rd-gear.html ) that I will be getting fixed eventually down the road.

I was hoping I would stop having problems after my car was a year or so old, but it just keeps getting worse….

Those are just the problems that I came up with off the top of my head, I am sure there are more.

I went to my dealer May 1st to notify them of the problems with my CMC. The technicians had left so I figured I would bring the car back later. The CMC seemed a little better for the next 2 weeks or so then it got bad again. May 11th Honda sent the following message to service departments through their network:

To: All Honda Service Managers
From: Technical Research & Support Group
Re: Request For Parts: 2006-2009 Civic, Accord and Element Clutch Actuation Components

Print this iN message and provide a copy to the Shop Foreman and all Service Advisors.

Background
American Honda (AHM) would like to collect the complete clutch actuation components from a 2006-2009 Civic, Accord, and Element that is exhibiting a squeak or click noise when using the clutch pedal.

Qualifiers
AHM is interested in parts from 2006-2009 Civics, Accords and Elements that meet the following requirements:

-First-time complaint
-Please verify there are no previous repairs for clutch pedal operation noise.
-The noise needs to be repeatable.
Parts of Interest

AHM is interested in collecting the following components:

• Clutch slave cylinder

• Clutch master cylinder

• The complete pedal assembly including the switches and the lines between the clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder

I took my car in May 19th and had my car diagnosed by a technician and Honda requested videos of the clutch noises. They were immediately sent to Honda and Honda confirmed they wanted the parts from my car.

The popping noise:




and the squeak:


The problem is I am just outside of warranty so Honda does not want to pay for the labor. The issue was sent to the District Parts and Service Manager and he decided (after taking 4 weeks) that Honda is not going to cover either of my issues.

I went ahead and called Honda Customer Service. I have heard bad things from everyone who has called Honda Customer Service, but I never experienced it for myself. Now I know how Honda Customer Service had gotten such a bad reputation………

I explained my issue to a Customer Service representative and she said I had a good case and said she would get the regional guy to call me and help me out.

I then got a call from Gus, the regional guy (ext 117754). Gus has been nothing more then useless. From the start he tells me everything with the clutch is a wear and tear item and my request for Honda to repair this is outrageous. He also tells me that this is not a customer service issue.

First off, CMC and the Slave master cylinder are NOT wear and tear items and are covered under the normal B2Bwarranty as well as HondaCare, I do not have a HondaCare extended warranty though. I have told by Honda that the CMC and Slave are not covered under the powertrain warranty although companies like Chevy for example cover them under their powertrain warranty:

Chevy Warranty Information | Owners | Chevrolet

My family owns 4 Hondas, has bought nothing but Hondas for the last 10 years and I was coincidently literally driving to a Honda dealer to pick up a new Honda when I was talking to Gus. If keeping a longtime Honda customer happy is not an issue of customer service, I am really not sure what Honda thinks customer service is? (by this point I have realized they clearly don’t know)

Gus also denied that the bulletin (about the clutches) by Honda is any admission of a problem of squeaky and clicking clutches and that they must “just be doing research”.

Gus told me all he can do is act as a liaison on my behalf and ask the DPSM to reconsider his decision, but he says it is very unlikely anything will happen. He also said the DPSM is the only one who can order my car to be fixed.

During my many many visits to the dealership to get my car repaired, I had a service advisor tell me I should sell my car because there are obviously big issues with it. I told Gus this and his response was “would you like to file a formal complaint against that service advisor?” I asked him why I would want to file a complaint for someone being real with me, to which he said that was just one persons opinion and it is up to me if I would like to take his advice and get rid of my car.

I find this kind of coincidental how he played this off saying it was just one person’s opinion, while it is also just one persons opinion who decides whether my car is fixed by Honda or not, the DPSM. The DPSM has never met me, does not know anything about my car, nor has he ever seen the car or problem.

I also asked Gus if he or the DPSM have seen the videos above of my clutch. He said he has not, so I asked him if I could email them to him. He told me his email can not accept outside emails (BS).

So basically people at Honda are making a decision about whether to fix my car, but they have not even seen it.

I talked to my dealership service manager about my clutch issue and he apologized and said there is not really anything he can do, Honda and the DPSM are all above his level. He said this seems to be happening more with Honda which sucks for him because he is the front line with the customer and it makes the dealership and service department look bad, when in reality it has nothing to do with them.

I just got a call from Gus at Honda Customer Service today and he told me he talked to the DPSM and he has decided his original decision stands, Honda will not replace or assist me in replacing my master cylinder, because I am a month out of warranty. I requested that they cover the master cylinder against failure for the powertrain warranty and I was told they can not do that either.

My dealership has also denied my sunvisor repair request.
Here are some pictures of the sunvisor problem. The visors are just starting to break and will be much worse in a few weeks:



And circled are the broken tabs that are the cause of the problem:



I think this is outrageous, given that this is a known common issue:

http://www.*************/forums/mech...isors-suk.html
http://www.*************/forums/mech...sun-visor.html
http://www.*************/forums/mech...visor-fix.html
http://www.*************/forums/mech...nally-fix.html
http://www.*************/forums/mech...sunvisors.html

And Honda has done NOTHING to try to fix it. All they are doing is replacing them under warranty and then waiting till your warranty is up. They have not even changed the 09 sunvisors which makes 4 years they have put the same POS sunvisors on the civics. I already got both of my visors replaced a year and a half ago, so at this rate I need new visors every 1.5 years. The cost of the visors is $50 each so that comes out to about $70 (after tax) a year on SUNVISORS!! THAT IS MORE THAN I SPEND ON OIL CHANGES!!! My service advisor said he has done hundreds of them, literally.

I told Gus of Honda Customer service this and he said I would need to go to the dealer and get it in writing that they will not cover my visor and I will need to open up a new case. He said it was very unlikely that Honda would do anything.

Through out this entire proceeding I have remained collective and professional, yet assertive. I haven’t yelled at anyone or acted like a jackass. At this point I think I am more frustrated with the way Honda is treating its customers then the actual problem. I am going to have to seriously reconsider EVER buying another Honda.

Sorry for the long rant I just wanted to vent and share my experience.

Ben850

don't know what to say bro.. i believe you when you say that you've treated your car properly, but all this crap is beyond a coincidence.

maybe they had a bunch of noobs in the factory assembling cars that day? as far as i know, there hasn't been any other civic with even 1/4 the problems you listed.

i call BS on honda and think that you're doing a great job pursuing it, just keep it up and something good is bound to happen for you.

RICO_

Welcome to Corporate America. God forbid a succesful company like Honda try and "goodwill" a repair for a customer. That would just be outrageous.

wrxified

Sounds like you have a right to be concerned. I'd continue to escalate the issue.

wrxified

Another thought. It seems like the warranty claims departments in all of the maufacturers are begining to be run more and more like insurance claims departments and that's unfortunate. They have a habit of looking for ways to first deny your claim and hope that you'll just see it their way and just drop it. I'd bug the heck out of them until they realize that you expect them to do what's right.

Tennisjon2002

I wish I could agree about the civic problems, but unfortunately I know several other people whom have had similar amounts of problems with their Si's. I am not here on Honda Tech much but I am fairly active on 8th Civic and many member there have had similar problems or more. One person who comes to mind is "Special Ringpop" on 8th Civic. His car has become an embarrassment to the Honda name and the quality that is usually associated with it.

Also almost none only a few of my problems have been isolated:

• 2 defective power steering racks - Several members on TOV and 8th Civic have had this issue
• Tapping noise in the morning coming from engine bay that started after 2nd power steering rack was replaced. (been in 2 times and still not fixed) -I am the only one I know with this issue, but I believe it was something with the install of the Steering Rack
• Both Sun visors cracked and replaced via the TSB - Everyone has this problem
• Shift boot started tearing - Very common problem. The tech and my dealer drives an Si and said he has replaced his 4 times already
• Front bump stops were replaced due to a popping noise via the TSB - Very Common problem
• Side mirror had to be replaced because it shook so bad I couldn’t see out of it- I am the only one I know with this issue.
• Rattles from A pillar, rear headliner and Rear Deck via TSB- All very common. My tech has done them all to his car too.
• Steering wheel had to be replaced because it was disintegrating - I haven't heard of too many people with this issue.
• My Electric Trunk Release snapped and locked me out of my trunk.- I am the only one I know with this issue.
• Battery died, would not jump and left me stranded. Had to get towed. -Very common issue.
• ECU reflashed for rev hang and bucking in first gear.- Very Common
• AirBag Sensor Recall- Obviously it is a recall so very common
• Rear seat latch broke- I am the only one I know of

And I don't even think I need to talk about 3rd gear

Tennisjon2002

Agreed. Especially a customer who has had lots of issue with his car and is very loyal to the brand, even my freaking lawnmower is a Honda.

Tennisjon2002

What would you suggest I do?

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Just sell the car.

Why you have not done that already is beyond me. Whether you have a bad one off the line or if you're just "one of those guys" just get rid of it and purchase either a new one or whatever.

DBAl

You can get visors off of honda part stores for $30ish each shipped. It still sucks but it is better than nothing.

Since I have had mine fixed I have tried not to fold them down at all so they last. The last time I took my car to the dealer they were nothing nice. One visor was ****ed and they replaced both as a courtesy.

Tennisjon2002

I almost bought my brothers 05 G35 last month but he ended up selling it to someone else for a lot more.

Tennisjon2002

Yea that might be what I will end up doing. I am going to take it back to the dealer that originally replaced the visors and see if they won't help me out. They have been the nicest of all the dealers I have dealt with.

I use my window visor in the summer sometimes so I think that is the main cause of my visors breaking. Otherwise I rarely use them.

Kidnkorner

Many people believe that the dealer, Honda and the DPSM are in the same family thus the reason why they believe a dealer can void a warranty too. They are not, the dealer has the authority to repair vehicles up to a certain threshold before seeking approval from Honda. This is similar to how a dealer can get you approved on a car sale, the bank says they will authorize the dealer to finance any buyer up to a certain threshold as long as their credit is xxx.

You need to get your service records and tally up all the days your vehicle has been at the dealer for warranty work. Your warranty is extended by as many days. The dealer, Honda and the DPSM may be unaware of this nor be willing to inform you of your rights.

Tennisjon2002

Does every day I take it into the dealer for a problem count or does it literally have to be at the dealer an entire day to count? and what about if I drop the car off at night for them to work on it in the morning?

DBAl

Has all of this been at the dealer you bought the car from, or another dealer?

Tennisjon2002

Bought the car from a dealer out of town and have not been back since (it saved me $1,500).
Since then I have had all of then work done at 2 dealers, one at where I went to school and one at home. Most of the work has been done at the dealership at home.

This was all done at the dealership near my house:
• 2 defective power steering racks
• Tapping noise in the morning coming from engine bay that started after 2nd power steering rack was replaced. (been in 2 times and still not fixed)
• Shift boot started tearing
• Front bump stops were replaced due to a popping noise via the TSB
• Side mirror had to be replaced because it shook so bad I couldn’t see out of it
• Rattles from A pillar, rear headliner and Rear Deck via TSB
• Steering wheel had to be replaced because it was disintegrating
• ECU reflashed for rev hang and bucking in first gear.
• AirBag Sensor Recall
• Rear seat latch broke

This was done at the dealership at school:
• My Electric Trunk Release snapped and locked me out of my trunk
• Battery died, would not jump and left me stranded. Had to get towed.
• Both Sun visors cracked and replaced via the TSB

i-VTEC_DOHC

sounds like my friend's mustang.
but man im sorry to hear that you picked up a lemon.
dont feel bad, my car only had 1 screw holding the door panel in when i bought it
brand new.

Kidnkorner

If they give you a ticket for repair and you were without the use, doesn't matter if they give it back to you at the end of the day it counts. Be sure their service ticket indicates when the vehicle checked in and checked out. Additionally, if you informed them of the problem BEFORE your warranty expired they have to cover it. I have experience with a dealer that jacked me around for a few hundred miles because they didn't want to accept the job under warranty so they could get their $95 per hour labor.

midwestmonster

Thanks for sharing. I had many problems with my 2008 Si with about 12,000 miles on it and just traded it in for another car. (NOT another Honda) My problems were:

Panel under glove box fell off three times and was finally replaced under warranty after the dealerships and I quote "awesome fix" didn't work.

Trunk liner collapsed and they velcroed it back up (another awesome fix), but that didn't help. Had to go back twice to complain and finally replaced it.

Squaking noise from rear of car they heard with their own ears, but can't seem to find........Wouldn't look at it anymore for me.

Heat shield by exhaust/bumper was defective and was making squeaking noise replaced under warranty.

Raddles from cabin and headliner drove me nuts, but they found nothing wrong with it....

I've gone to the dealership 8 times in less than one year of owning the car and couldn't take it anymore. These cars are NOT built like they used to be. I will NEVER buy another Honda again. Good luck with your car. I personally would get rid of it and right it off as experience and NEVER buy another Honda again. Their quality control has gone down the drain bigtime!

Tennisjon2002

Lol that is bad. Got to love the fit and finish on the new civics ha

Kidnkorner

You also need to look into your states lemon law. I know in Florida that if the accumulative days total up to 30 you have arbitrary rights and Honda may be obligated to purchase your car back from you at fair market value.

Many dealers try to get you to take your car back if it's drivable to avoid adding days to the accumulative tally, don't take your car! I would definitely put an attorney on retainer, if nothing but a nice threatening letter. You may not even have to pay a retainer for this service. Call your states bar association for a referral, there are plenty of attorneys that accept cases like this where the law entitles them to collect their fees from the manufacturer. There are usually a 3 strikes and youre out on a single item under some states lemon law.

Tennisjon2002

I just got a call from Gus of American Honda "Customer Service" today about my visors. I think they are starting to do anything they can to inconvenience me and make me give up.

Yesterday, as American Honda requested, I took my car to the dealership to have the visor diagnosed, aka I wasted a lot of time for them to tell me my visor is broken and needs to be replaced. I told Gus this and I also explained the problem to him etc and how I feel it is a safety issue because I can barely get my visor closed and eventually it will not close which will block my vision and create a scalping hazard in the event of an accident. He said he is not trained to analyze whether it is a safety issue or not an said he is starting to doubt me, which I found slightly funny yet offensive. He is requiring me to fax him the dealer diagnoses which shows that the visor is broken and difficult to close. I am currently in the process of sending that.....

i-VTEC_DOHC

id there a tsb or anything about the shift boot on the si's tearing?

Tennisjon2002

No, it is a common issue. My mechanic said he has replaced his 4 times already and that it was just going to rip again.
Also don't let ur dealership play games with you. Mine tried to deny it saying it was a "cosmetic issue" and was only covered for 12 months under warranty. When I pulled out the warranty book and told them to show that to me in the warranty booklet it quickly became a "mechanical issue" lol

i-VTEC_DOHC

hows it mechanical? im guessing because it rips due to the flexing from shifting?