EK FLY

07 si came in to the shop yesterday . with cel on and vsa light on 106k on the odo

found code p0341 ( cam sensor out of range )
send the car back to the dealer
car came back with the following

recommend :replace timing chain ,gide,and tensioner they said that the chain stretched to a point that the cam sensor is out of range from the crank sensor

the cause , oil starvation , timing chain heat up to a stretching point ,

motor is on its way out my guess 3

the question is : has honda warrantied any of these problems on a car that has 106 k , costumer said that the car has been regularly maintain following the maintenance minder % he eve do the maintenance at the dealer . the reason i ask is because i have a 08 si with 74 k miles and i sure dont want to have problems at 100k

97emsedan

Sounds like the car was thrashed... a timing chain does not 'stretch' with normal use...

bee guz

Sounds like some serious abuse.

EK FLY

thats the first thing that came to my mind , well if it helps the car is driven by a 28 year old female , and after doing research last night after i got home from work i discover that the crv's,accord,and tsx , specially tsx's have the same problem here is a few links all have the same problem vsa light on and p341 code and low oil = timing chain stretch

http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=700308
http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=840693

apexi_rsx

100k thats normal timing chain should be replaced at 100k u just were not fortunate enough to make it to 130-160k as some do.

EK FLY

Well they said timing chain should never be replaced , thain question on this topic is why os the car burning oil or if not where is it going , and how come its happening o. Such a reputable engines and what is honda doi.g about the issue

94EG8

You don't normally replace the chain. Only if it's stretched like this or if it stretches from high mileage (think more along the lines of 250k+) Dealer price on a timing chain replacement is around $1200 IIRC. K-series timing chains are notorious for stretching if you let the oil level drop. As far as I know Honda wont normally warranty them because checking and adding oil is the responsibility of the owner. As long as you keep the oil topped up you shouldn't have any issues with stretched timing chains.

bee guz

If this car was suppose to be dealer serviced and you see problems like this, it would make me tend to stay away from dealers for services.

I do not trust dealers, my nieces toyota was suppose tho have been serviced at the dealer.

she took it in to her neighborhood guy where she took her other cars they asked her why she never had the oil changed before 10K.

She had taken the car in 3 times, for an oil change but they never did the oil service, but they did charge her for it.

I just do not trust dealers, there objective is to sell you another car, not keep your car in perfect condition.

94EG8

And what exactly made this guy say the oil hadn't been changed in 10K? Oil life monitor? Sometimes techs forget to reset them (I've personally done it more than once when I was a tech) Window sticker? Again I've personally forgotten to change them when I was a tech. If he's just looking at the oil, well guess what you can't determine mileage by looking at it.

koukou0o2

iTrader: (1)

hmmm....would it be on limp mode as well? can you step on it pass 4000 rpm? .....

97emsedan

I was wondering that myself...

94EG8

Just as an FYI dealers make very little on new cars for the most part, used cars and service is where the real money is. Their goal is to keep your car in perfect condition, since they make serious money keeping it that way.

TOO MUCH TORQUE

whats the consumption rate of your si OP? if you never let your oil drop below the bottom dot, you have nothing to worry about. these engines can take serious abuse and last a really long time.

if you want your motor to last, this is what you need to do:
1) Let your car warm up in idle for 20-30 secs minimum. Then drive it gently until the engine is fully warmed up(180-190f). When youre driving it gently, i would not shift pass 3k rpms.
2) timely oil changes. Use premium filters(m1, wix, pureone, napa gold, bosch), magnetic drain plug and any 5w-30 SN labeled oil will be sufficient on your SI. I suggest run an oil analysis with TBN to determine how long you can run an oil before the oil cannot neutralize acids.
3) avoid repeatedly turning on and off the car. If you need to wait a minute or two, just keep it running. Engine starts causes the most engine wear and other things such as starters, ignition systems, etc.
4) occasionally run it to redline and let it engine break to keep the piston rings spinning freely. point here to prevent carbon from building up in your ring grooves aka "stuck piston rings"
5) keep a constant pressure on the pedal when you cruise. i hate how people gas on gas off gas on gas off.....
6) don't lug your engine... 6th gear at 30mph isnt helping. Put it in the appropriate gear...

97emsedan

Very good advice... are Honda filters good enough to be listed as 'premium'? I am running OE full synthetic oil in my engine, and I was wondering if the filter my dealer uses (OE Honda parts) will be sufficient for the task.

I run the car on cruise when I am on the highway but I do occasionally let the pedal sink to the floor when I get the opportunity, and the 3K shift point is just plain good sense...

TOO MUCH TORQUE

Honda a02 filters are made by fram i believe. if honda puts it in millions of vehicles, i would say its good. i wouldn't hesitate to use it. People bash fram for its cardboard end caps inside the filter(orange fram cans). Fram has several lines of filters, not sure which one the Honda A02 filter is.


3k is great compromise of power, fuel efficiency and engine wear.

willimo

OP - I am assuming you work in an independent shop?

So, why would this person, who has been "taking their car to the dealer for all their oil changes" suddenly come to you? I don't mean this offensively, but if they have been going to the dealer for something as routine as an oil change, it doesn't really follow that they'd go to an independent shop for a CEL and VSA light?

Timing chains are pretty much intended to last the life of the car. They won't always, but that's the intention. You have to really, really try to get them to fail. I don't mean they are perfect for high horsepower super race modified cars, but for an unmodified car? They are more than adequate. There is no maintenance interval for them.

I, like the others in the thread, kind of doubt that they really did get the car maintained consistently. I am sure you are knowledgeable enough to check the dipstick. Not for just the oil level, but if the metal is discolored and stained, the customer has not been getting regular service.

The other thing we see sometimes is that the customer will install a turbo kit or something and not tune it so it runs really hard on the engine, and then just abuse the everloving **** out of it. When a problem comes up, like a CEL, they will take it all off (which is easy because it wasn't done well in the first place) and then come complaining that there is an "inexplicable" problem with the car. This results most often in a clutch or transmission problem, but sometimes manifests in the motor itself.

And yes, Honda OE filters are some of the best out there. Most OE filters are. They have more paper filter material than do almost any of the competition. And all Hondas save the S2000 use the same filter, so they probably design the oiling system with the filter pretty much in mind.

willimo

Honda filters are made my Honeywell. Honeywell may make Fram filters too, but they are not the same.

TOO MUCH TORQUE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSKj-...ayer_embedded#!

near the end of the videoo..he compared a fram to honda and they look the same

vladd

I've heard of RSXs having stretched timing chains around 140-150K. It's not something that's supposed to happen, but apparently it does once in a while.

EK FLY

Well she is a friend of mine , know her for ever , mid 30 lady with kids i dont think she will be interested on hitting vtec every day wile taking the kids to daycare or going to work
I wouldnt have posted this if i knew it was a kid bouncing of the redline every day .
My point is that there is a failure in honda ring in their k series lead to consumption of oil there fore oil starvation .

ohdannyboy73

My 06 civic Si has been burning oil since day 1. I have to put in about a quart every 1100 miles. Honda believes this is normal operation. I took it to the dealership after the first oil change and they wouldn't do anything about it.

m_shake

We've had a few of these come in for this same issue, things that were always in common:
Women owned all the cars affected.
Almost always on the 0% oil life meter for who knows how long.
The oil was typically low and extremely black(well past service life)