Johndv201

My question is how much can i bargain down a Civic Si with a Navi and lojack for? What is fair? If you want to know what I have gone through with some dealers please read below. Or please just answer my question.

So far I visited a few dealers, and I have been bargaining a Civic Si down. I got one dealer to sell me a Civic Si with a Navi and lojack for 21700 OTD! But when i came back the next day he changed his mind and said he would only do 21700 with taxes. I didn't fall for it and decided to play hard ball and told him I don't want to do business with him unless he gives me a better deal than that.

The rival dealer up the street called me today and offered me 21700 w/o navi, w/ lojack, and 23800 with navi and lojack both OTD prices. I told him that a dealer had offered me 21700 OTD for navi and lojack.

So I am trying really hard to get a dealer to sell me the car for 21700OTD, I almost had it, but the dealer decided not to budge. Should I play hard ball and keep pushing for 21700OTD? And what is a great bargain as long as I have a lot of patience.

SImadness

always bargain with the dealers, tell them what you want to pay and youll sign today so take it or leave it most dealers can afford to take a small hit and still make good money. if they wont budge even then and you really want the car make them throw in some maintenance plan. my sedan is black and it had colormatched painted wheels and pretty dark tint and a 2 year maintnance plan for just below msrp, so i feel like i got a good deal. plus i traded my cbr in for what its worth i took a small hit and so did they. just play the cards right and if they wont be reasonable its not meant to be find another dealer

Johndv201

Thanks for the advice. I never thought about services and stuff. What do you think personally I can get OTD price for the 4 door with navi and lojack?

The dealer was going to give me 21700OTD that very day, too bad I had to sign the rest of the papers the next day. Should I keep gunning for 21700OTD?

JTTeG_X

A lot has to deal with where your located at. Dealer A that is located in California, SF has a high demand for Civic Si's. Consumers are paying MSRP for it. Dealer B located in Washington DC have sold very few Si's. There are many on the show room floor and no one is really buying cars. Chances are you will be able to pick one up at DC for a lower price OTD.

I'm in California and 21,700 OTD is about the price I got with employee discount at Honda for the 09' Si Sedan WITHOUT navi/options.

Johndv201

I live in CA, My mother lives in Georgia. In Atlanta, I don't think the demand for Si isn't as high. Our family has connections with a Honda dealer, she goes to church with the owner. He said he will look into getting us the best deal he can, and we can work something out and have the car shipped to Santa Ana CA, because his friend owns the Honda dealer in Santa Ana. They do exchanges all the time.

I'll let you guys know how this goes, but I'm hoping it goes well. hopefully I get 21700 Navi and Lojack OTD. The shipping will be around 600 max for a SUV, don't know for a sedan though.

instructor74

I was going to say that sounds like a good deal I am walking out the door without nav for right around 21000. buy the way the dealer here is trying really hard to move a 09 mugen I think he is asking 26,900 for it.

wegotmorrison

just remind him that he is a car salesman, and that He's struggling and his family really needs this sale...

But on the otherside, how much more would your payments be if you just caved in and got the SI with navi and lojack for 21700 plus tax?

switched_in_your_eye

Thats a pretty good price for navi. I just paid 20,500 OTD for my 09 coupe w/o navi which is a $2000 option so do the math. I'd say 21,700 plus tax is a fair price.

rpared01

i just got an 07 coupe si for $16,980 with only 27,988 miles. When i test drove the car it did the 3rd gear pop. the dealer is now in the process of fixing it and i will be picking up the car 4-5-09. i got them to throw in the karr security system, extended warrenty and gap.

Johndv201

Well I'm taking every ones word for it. I think the best I can get is

21700OTD no Navi, with Lojack
23800OTD With Navi, with Lojack.

Maybe I can get some special service contract like some of you guys advised.

wegotmorrison

I'd just get it without Navi and Lojack.

JTTeG_X

"21700OTD no Navi, with Lojack"
still a good deal IMO. however, i would call the "rival" dealer and be like "the other dealer offered a great price, but i did not like the salesman attitude toward me as a potential customer. i do not mind doing business with you if you can offer a competitive price."
try to make it sound like the dealer was just shady and you're willing to pay more for better customer service as you will go back there for their "maintenance services" *cough*. THEN workout a service plan such as first 2000 mile service is free (inspection, oil, filter, lubing, etc). Maybe even a dealer service gift card with value.

Kidnkorner

I posted this on a Honda forum local to me but it still applies

1. Negotiate price of vehicle first without disclosing trade or down payment. Don't walk in with a payment in mind. Dealers are hoping you are a payment buyer. Negotiate price of vehicle, then trade value and let the APR and terms determine your payment, that is unless you have some low ball payment that is unreachable to begin with.

2. Negotiate trade and don't buy that $2k-$3k back of book bull. Auction value/ACV IS NOT trade value. They want to give you auction value so when/if they can't sell it on their lot they can wholesale it or take it to auction. If they can sell it on their lot they will make a killing. They want you to pay full price for their vehicle, wouldn't be fair if they returned the favor?

3. Negotiate financing terms. How can a dealer give you an APR without pulling credit?

4. Avoid any extended warranties. Look out for tricks to get you to buy one in lieu of higher interest rate. If they offer a lower interest rate because you are buying the warranty it's because they would make more money on the warranty. They could have given the lower rate without it. Additionally, buyers keep their car an average of 41 months, so what's the point?

5. Don't pay full price for GAP While GAP coverage is good don't pay full price for it. You negotiated like a champ for the price of your car, why stop there? 50 to 25% off is good. Buyers rarely have to make a GAP insurance claim anyway.

6. Disclose down payment last. If you have a down payment disclose this when it's time to sign. They LOVE it when you do that, lol! $1,000 generally lowers your payment $20-$25 per month. Make a down payment with Visa or or Master Card. This is added assurance that if the deal doesn't go thru or something goes wrong you can file a dispute and get your down payment back should a dealer refuse to refund your down payment 100%

7. REFUSE TO PAY DOC FEE !!! $350+ to complete the paper work associated with the sale of your car should be considered theft, $50-$70 of the doc fee is legitimate. If you wan to save 100% of this all you need is a bill of sale and lien holder information to take your local tag/title agency, and you can probably print a temp tag yourself at your states website. So what if you don't roll off the lot right then and there.

8. Dealer installed accessories. These can get expensive quick. 25% off list price is wholesale and they still make a respectable return. Avoid dealers that add on stuff like tint, wheel locks, door edge guards, and a bunch of other non proprietary stuff. You can get these items for a better price and most likely higher quality too. They usually tack on $1,000 to the MSRP of the vehicle and this cost's them less than $200.

Lastly, but most importantly, READ EVERYTHING YOU ARE SIGNING !! Don't be in such a big hurry, READ EVERYTHING. If the finance clerk is rushing you through come back when he has time or not at all. These guys usually work on a rotation, the sooner they get you out the door the sooner they can get back in the Que and make more money. There is no right of rescission in most states, so be sure everything is right.

Be careful, sometimes a dealer will push a delivery thru that they know won't go thru (based on credit) with the lender hoping you will be able to get more cash down when they give you "that call." This is a known as an unwind. This is shady, but happens sometimes. Buying during traditional banking hours can help prevent this. Refuse any additional cash down or demands to sign new contracts.

Some pointers on maximizing your trade value: Try to have your vehicle professionally detailed bumper to bumper. The better the condition the harder time they will have knocking the value of your car down. Service records and new consumable parts go a very long way.

Johndv201

Wow, thanks man. That makes a lot more sense. I'll let you know how it goes next week, because I'm in school right now. Don't have time to deal this week.

C_R_X_

id try to go 22,500 with the navi if they said no id walk and then come back the next day and get it w/ out the nav......i think that is a great price considering before the economy took a **** dealers were marking them up in socal........also i went to the dealer in va to help my mother in law get an accord and we got a lot better of a deal bc hondas aren't flying off the lo there like here in ca.....and who ever was talking amount the mugen civic a dealer here in socal wouldn't budge off the 29k price

Notorious92rhdEG

i sold brand new Honda's for a long time.
i agree with 90% of what you have here except for #2 your trade value and disclosing your down payment till the end. any dealer is going to give you the auction price. why not more you ask? b/c if they really wanted a car like yours to sell on the used lot, they could just go to the auction and buy one for the auction price so why should they give you more. lets be realistic here.... if you want the dealer to give you retail price for your trade, just pay retail for the new car... that would be fair, but since everyone wants money off retail, why does the dealer need to give you retail and not money off your car.

and another thing you said. IF the dealer sells your car at retail he's gonna make a killing...so? that is a big if and not a guarentee.... if we take a trade-in and it sits on the lot for 90 days and doesn't sell it goes to the auction and they get what they get. thats guarenteed, not selling it on the lot.

nobody wants anyone to make any money anymore, but you will be the first to bitch and moan when the dealer has to make cut backs in staffing and hours and that affects the service you get.

and your down payment has nothing to do with the selling price. don't negotiate payments, negotiate price. when the price and trade in is all figured out everything esle is simple math. tax and paperwork fees are the same and your down payment will only your monthly payments.

the point is, go in armed with knowledge about the product you want to buy and a fair selling price of the car and a fair trade in. if your too much of a hard ***, they will not cave in and you don't get your car.

have fun.

Johndv201

So the numbers I got from Edmunds TMV around where I live are

Invoice: $22,854
TMV:$23,203

When I go to the dealer with this information, what is fair to ask for?

ChargedSI

I definitely agree on the "Hard ***" comment. I went to 6 Honda dealers in California a few months after the economic crash thinking dealers would be starving to sell cars. I was trying to get a 2008 Fit Sport for $2,000 under the MSRP of the standard Fit. Several of the dealers had at least 20 to 30 Honda Fit Sports on the lot. I went in these dealerships with a “This is the car I want and this is all I am going to pay” attitude. All 6 dealers gave me the same response “Sorry, can’t help you”.

In the end I bought a BMW. lol

wegotmorrison

John, I think it's time you just buy the car the way you want it, for the price they are willing to sell it to you for. You're talking about a grand or two, big whoop. Pay the price to be satisfied.

23800OTD With Navi, with Lojack, or the 217000 without. Just pay that, please?

Johndv201

Alright thanks guys. I think I have obtained enough knowledge to go deal it out. I will let you guys know how it all goes down.

instructor74

o ne last thing it works out to be about $20 more per month for every 1000 you borrow. so your talking about $40 per month more to have the navi

Kidnkorner

Happen to notice I already said something along those lines?

Nocturnal

Do you guys think I'd have a better hand at dealing with the dealership if I was going to buy two cars at one time? I want to buy an 09 Element and an 09 SI sedan.

Johndv201

As long as your credit is good , but sure why not. Why wouldn't they give you a good deal if you buy two cars. First things first go and talk to them and let them know what you want to do and see what their deal is and tell them you will get back to them tomorrow and take their price quote paper. Take that paper and take it somewhere else and see what happens. Then come back here and tell people what numbers you are getting.

Nocturnal

Great, thanks for the advice. I will do that tonight. My wife's EK hatchback got stolent his morning and we doubt we're going to get it back. My EG is quite a hot target so we're looking to just get rid of these old cars that are prone to being stolen by random idiots and looking towards cars that have a little bit more protection in them.